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Thread: Immigration and the global economy

  1. #1
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Immigration and the global economy

    First, this is merely an observation and I'm not saying anything is good or bad; it just is. I've noticed a significant difference between modern immigrants to America compared to those of decades past. The "legacy immigrants" left bad conditions in their old countries seeking a better life in the United States or other "first world" nations. Traditionally, they stayed in their new countries, integrated with American culture, and became part of the US economy, only looking back in bittersweet nostalgia to the place they left behind.

    Today, what I see happening is quite different. They come to the US, build up a business, accumulate some wealth, then send it back to their country of origin to make another business there. Sometimes it's to fund a retirement, sometimes to fund a relative's business venture. I've seen it with Nicaraguans, plus I have a client from Albania who is doing this exact thing.

    On the one hand, it takes money out of the US economy and moves it overseas, but on the other hand it's a free-market global redistribution of wealth that uses capitalism and individual empowerment exactly as it's meant to be used. What we should take as a warning is this: they are leveraging our capital and taking advantage of the drastically lower costs of doing business in other countries. If it were cheaper or easier to do these businesses in the US, I suspect they might consider doing them here. But the cost of doing business around the world is so cheap and easy compared to the US, I don't blame them a bit for what they're doing.

  2. #2
    Active TRN Member webtrainer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    good point...my bride is taking ESL courses at our local community college and the trend there seems to be that immigrants come to the USA, learn English, work and try to save money, become U.S. citizens, then go back to their home countries with the option of coming back if and when the US economy gets better.

    Let's face it, the U.S. economy is in bad shape and there are better opportunities out there right now.

    Of course, what you describe is what a lot of "us" on TRN have done or are doing (whether Nica or US born) ...bring our US earned $ here to open businesses.

    Hopefully we just don't have any ideas of actually making any money at it though.
    Doors of hope fly open when doors of promise shut. -Thomas D'Arcy McGee

  3. #3

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    my business idea for nica is to sell my paintings at exhorbitant prices to the tourists...

    whaddya think of my business plan?
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

  4. #4

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Demento View Post
    my business idea for nica is to sell my paintings at exhorbitant prices to the tourists...

    whaddya think of my business plan?
    btw, what will you give me for the painting as my avatar?
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    I have seen the backpackers buy many things, art ain't one of them. Good luck with your business plan.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Demento View Post
    btw, what will you give me for the painting as my avatar?
    Friends, Romans, Dutch impressionist painters... Lend me your ears !!!
    ==================================================
    Dude !!!.... Its a Canal !!! Can you Dig it ??

  7. #7

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    Friends, Romans, Dutch impressionist painters... Lend me your ears !!!

    Very Good!!!!!!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    I have seen the backpackers buy many things, art ain't one of them. Good luck with your business plan.

    Maybe Daniel, Che and Hugo on a black velvet background would be a big seller?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by cookshow View Post
    I have seen the backpackers buy many things, art ain't one of them. Good luck with your business plan.
    sjds has some cruise ships that dock there.... it is only them that i'd sell to. i will want some me time in my retirement... time to fish, boogie board, play poker and nap....
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

  10. #10

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by pickled toe View Post
    I have seen the backpackers buy many things, art ain't one of them. Good luck with your business plan.

    Maybe Daniel, Che and Hugo on a black velvet background would be a big seller?
    as miskito alan would say, i don't like it, i love it...
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

  11. #11
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Today, what I see happening is quite different. They come to the US, build up a business, accumulate some wealth, then send it back to their country of origin to make another business there. ...

    On the one hand, it takes money out of the US economy and moves it overseas, but on the other hand it's a free-market global redistribution of wealth that uses capitalism and individual empowerment exactly as it's meant to be used. What we should take as a warning is this: they are leveraging our capital and taking advantage of the drastically lower costs of doing business in other countries....
    Bigh Jonh, what you describe on the picayune scale of immigrants is happening big time with our Wall Street money masters. To wit, read this two week old editorial:

    The Next Bubble, NY Times, October 13, 2010
    It seems premature to start worrying about the next financial crisis. Yet amid the current gloom, Wall Street is snapping up assets of the “emerging economies” that are growing faster and offer higher, more consistent returns. Financial regulators and policy makers in these countries need to pay close attention.

    The Institute of International Finance, which lobbies for big banks, estimates that $825 billion will flow into developing countries this year, 42 percent more than in 2009. Investments in debt of emerging economies alone is expected to triple, to $272 billion.

    While developing countries often benefit from foreign investments, huge inflows of capital complicate their macroeconomic management. They push up the value of their currency, boosting imports and slowing exports, and they promote fast credit expansion — which can cause inflation, inflate asset bubbles and usually leave a pile of bad loans. This money turns tail at the first sign of trouble, tipping countries into crisis.

    Those are the dynamics behind Mexico’s 1994 “tequila crisis,” the 1997 Asian crisis, the 1998 Russian catastrophe, the 1999 Brazilian debacle and the 2002 Argentine collapse. The housing bubble that burst here in 2008 was painfully similar, with irrational investments and then a sudden flight.
    Beyond
    leveraging our capital and taking advantage of the drastically lower costs of doing business in other countries
    this is U.S. taxpayer-Treasury capital aimed to bailout our homefolk.

  12. #12
    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by cookshow View Post
    I have seen the backpackers buy many things, art ain't one of them. Good luck with your business plan.

    So what are the backpackers actually buying in Nica?

    In our country (USA) minority firms have an advantage on Many kinds of contracts. Women are minorities btw. We have a company that is Italian and owned by a woman in Seattle that provides shipboard lighting (and maybe other kinds of lighting, but I would not know). The Washington state constitution says that all Washington State Ferry work Will be done by a Washington State company. They did this to protect a dying industry. One of the items in construction of all Washington State Ferry (WSF) contracts is that a percentage has to go to minority owned firms. So this lighting company that I am talking about is always going to get work when ever the largest ferry system in the country (or even perhaps the world) puts out a contract. Now I have worked with this lighting company many times managing subcontract work to suppliers. Their work sucks and they never meet the requirements of WSF. My companies have always had to redo the lighting calculations, specify different kinds of fixtures (to match the ceiling grid plan that is provided by others etc).
    Survivor

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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    Bigh Jonh, what you describe on the picayune scale of immigrants is happening big time with our Wall Street money masters. To wit, read this two week old editorial:



    Beyond this is U.S. taxpayer-Treasury capital aimed to bailout our homefolk.
    Nicaragua's coastal real estate market is an example of how that can turn out.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by randude View Post
    So what are the backpackers actually buying in Nica?

    In our country (USA) minority firms have an advantage on Many kinds of contracts. Women are minorities btw. We have a company that is Italian and owned by a woman in Seattle that provides shipboard lighting (and maybe other kinds of lighting, but I would not know). The Washington state constitution says that all Washington State Ferry work Will be done by a Washington State company. They did this to protect a dying industry. One of the items in construction of all Washington State Ferry (WSF) contracts is that a percentage has to go to minority owned firms. So this lighting company that I am talking about is always going to get work when ever the largest ferry system in the country (or even perhaps the world) puts out a contract. Now I have worked with this lighting company many times managing subcontract work to suppliers. Their work sucks and they never meet the requirements of WSF. My companies have always had to redo the lighting calculations, specify different kinds of fixtures (to match the ceiling grid plan that is provided by others etc).
    I've seen the same thing in Construction.

    Backpackers buy fruit and vegetables in the market, and the cheapest rooms for the night. Not much else.

  15. #15
    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    I had to go before I finished my last post (had to take the girl friend out and she was finally ready).

    So this minority owned firm always messes up and has to have their work redone. Usually their faults are lack of research (adapting to a certain kind of ceiling system that another supplier is providing, and lack of the terms that we use in lighting calculations to get the standard lighting values for the various places. Lighting for a kitchen (Galley) is different than the lighting for the dining room or state room. These are all standards that we are bound to follow. I have seen really bright dining rooms with really dim kitchens or laundry rooms. My doing to math to check their work because we are the prime contractor forces me to check every single calculation, then redo their work and respecify their lighting fixtures. It takes money and time away from our budget, but if we were to have them redo their calcs we would be too late to make the material orders and other things like that. And the fun part is every contract they are entitled the work or just the money that the work would provide regardless of past performance. There are no other firms in the Seattle area that can or are qualified to do this subcontract work. We had laughed about it being cheaper to just give them the money and do the work ourselves at the onset to save us from having to rush reworking their work to meet the schedule.

    rant rant rant over
    Survivor

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by randude View Post
    I had to go before I finished my last post (had to take the girl friend out and she was finally ready).

    So this minority owned firm always messes up and has to have their work redone. Usually their faults are lack of research (adapting to a certain kind of ceiling system that another supplier is providing, and lack of the terms that we use in lighting calculations to get the standard lighting values for the various places. Lighting for a kitchen (Galley) is different than the lighting for the dining room or state room. These are all standards that we are bound to follow. I have seen really bright dining rooms with really dim kitchens or laundry rooms. My doing to math to check their work because we are the prime contractor forces me to check every single calculation, then redo their work and respecify their lighting fixtures. It takes money and time away from our budget, but if we were to have them redo their calcs we would be too late to make the material orders and other things like that. And the fun part is every contract they are entitled the work or just the money that the work would provide regardless of past performance. There are no other firms in the Seattle area that can or are qualified to do this subcontract work. We had laughed about it being cheaper to just give them the money and do the work ourselves at the onset to save us from having to rush reworking their work to meet the schedule.

    rant rant rant over
    The system is designed to drive white male owned firms into bankruptcy. Gotta stick it to the man.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    The system is designed to drive white male owned firms into bankruptcy. Gotta stick it to the man.
    jonh, are you complaining like this guy?


    [YT]GKFuYykPSxI[/YT]
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

  18. #18
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Yeah!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    In Spain there are two types of immigration (as everywhere): one comes to invest their capital in companies and others to work in them to send money to their country of origin. It has always been and will be so.

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Welcome to TRN!

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Tourists like spending money, it is a psychological problem for them but an opportunity for you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Demento View Post
    my business idea for nica is to sell my paintings at exhorbitant prices to the tourists...

    whaddya think of my business plan?

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


  22. #22
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    My brother, still working in the PRK, made this observation many years ago--"L.A. is where foreigners come to make money, screw the place up, and then move somewhere else".
    The difference is that when our ancestors came to L. A. , they forgot about the piss ant europeon countries they came from, obeyed American laws, supported themselves and their families, and became Americans in one generation. The American people are becoming the new Palestinians, second class citizens in their own country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    First, this is merely an observation and I'm not saying anything is good or bad; it just is. I've noticed a significant difference between modern immigrants to America compared to those of decades past. The "legacy immigrants" left bad conditions in their old countries seeking a better life in the United States or other "first world" nations. Traditionally, they stayed in their new countries, integrated with American culture, and became part of the US economy, only looking back in bittersweet nostalgia to the place they left behind.

    Today, what I see happening is quite different. They come to the US, build up a business, accumulate some wealth, then send it back to their country of origin to make another business there. Sometimes it's to fund a retirement, sometimes to fund a relative's business venture. I've seen it with Nicaraguans, plus I have a client from Albania who is doing this exact thing.

    On the one hand, it takes money out of the US economy and moves it overseas, but on the other hand it's a free-market global redistribution of wealth that uses capitalism and individual empowerment exactly as it's meant to be used. What we should take as a warning is this: they are leveraging our capital and taking advantage of the drastically lower costs of doing business in other countries. If it were cheaper or easier to do these businesses in the US, I suspect they might consider doing them here. But the cost of doing business around the world is so cheap and easy compared to the US, I don't blame them a bit for what they're doing.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


  23. #23
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    ... The American people are becoming the new Palestinians, second class citizens in their own country.
    That analogy might be better reversed. California has been a state for less than 2 centuries. However, Alta California was a part of Mexico (New Spain) for more than 3 centuries. Ditto Texas & New Mexico. Just saying.
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

  24. #24
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    The Spanish never really populated their areas that are now in the US. Except for the Rio Grande Valley in New Mexico and some scattered colonies in California, the land was ruled by Indian tribes hostile to the Spanish. The Russians had Brits had been to their north,
    american trappers wondered in uninvited. etc. In 400 yrs., the Spanish/Mexican in AZ only occupied a tiny strip of land from Tucson to the current Mexican border for only the last 100 years of their rule.

    Spanish/Mexican rule is historical and romantic, but in reality they accomplished very little. One of the main things that helped smooth the transition to American rule in New Mexico was the Americans finally brought in the troops to protect the Hispanics and friendly Indians from the other Indians.

    Funny how Mexican nationalists whine about Texas and the southwest, but never whine about Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica who left Mexico in the same time period and never looked back.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration and the global economy

    I saw it at my last job at a public utility with the landscape maintenance contract with a minority contract. The Mexican company charged twice what a local white landscaper would and was very, very picky about not doing what "was not in our contract", which I got to do as "incidental duties" once I screwed up and mentioned I used to work in the industry and knew the Mexican and all the other locals landscapers. The White Man's burden has a whole new meaning since the fall of the Republic. Loose Lips Sink Ships.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    The system is designed to drive white male owned firms into bankruptcy. Gotta stick it to the man.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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