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Thread: My First Apples

  1. #1

    Default My First Apples

    All you doubters please take note:

    I planted these trees only a year ago, I didn't expect any fruit for another two years. Two apples is not much, but a start.

    These are apples selected to grow in warm climates.

    Source is:

    http://www.kuffelcreek.com/

    Other pic is the pila we're building at the spring. If the guys get it right, the top of the tank (less a few inches) will be equal to the level of the standing water in the spring.

    This will be a 24,000 liter storage. There is a low divider to allow the water from the spring to settle, hopefully dropping any silt that flows into the tank.
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  2. #2
    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    That is so cool about the apples.

    I have dealt with doubters since day one, can't grow this or that, nothing more pleasurable than proving them wrong, and even when you fail, at least you tried, damn sure more than any of the doubters ever done.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    Default Re: My First Apples

    wow. so impressive!

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    KWP on Yahoo Groups there is a Costa Rica Gardening Forum. Joined it a few years back when I was looking for info on something or other. There is a guy(s) on there doing Apples. The forum gets little traffic so I seldom check it, happened to this morning and there is an Apple update and a few pics.

    If I remember he got a few people to go in with him on an order and then went through the process of getting an import permit. He has been at it a few years and is seeing some fruit now.

    I never researched them much I knew you could grow them in hot climates, had come across that when reading on other things. Never have taken the time to read how they would deal with the extreme rain we get on this side.

    After years of reading and planting I have come to the conclusion that you can find some variety of almost any plant that will grow in your climate, sometimes finding them is as easy a Google search and sometimes it is akin to a Wild Goose Chase.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

  5. #5

    Default Re: My First Apples

    Thanks!

    I'll check him out. Once you get the seed for some root stock (or a few apples), and some trees that are producing, you can take bud wood and graft it onto the root stock.

    I was going to try and bring down another 200 next spring. I got 30 varieties spread across 100 trees, chosen for my climate, but I would like to try some others too, and I'm not sure all 30 made it. I lost quite a few because that trip was so long and hot (kept stopping to put on new spring leafs and having the undercarriage of the trailer I was towing reinforced).

    I was outrageously overloaded.

    If I had it to do over again (and I am) I would replace the trailer axles with 7500# capacity axles, and box the u-channel they use for the undercarriage. Bought right it's not that much money and the axles have myriad uses.

  6. #6
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    OK, I'm a doubter. I ain't saying you glued the apples on the shrub for the pix. But i thought the apple tree needed some time in freezing weather, a certain number of chill hours (near freezing) "to set fruit".

    I suppose the dog whisperer covered it thus:
    Quote Originally Posted by cookshow View Post
    I never researched them much I knew you could grow them in hot climates, had come across that when reading on other things. ...
    After years of reading and planting I have come to the conclusion that you can find some variety of almost any plant that will grow in your climate, ....
    Who could argue with years of reading and planting"? Still I remain skeptical. Show me an avocado or mango that'll grow outside in Ontario yearround. (It may go after 150 years of climate change.) Or how about y'all make maple syrup from 20+year old maple trees grown in Nicaragua.

    Plus I must ask: can you prune a tree for productivity in a climate where it never goes dormant without damaging, opening it to infection?
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Note that I said "almost". A guy in CR just posted pics of apples on his trees there on the forum I mentioned.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

  8. #8

    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    OK, I'm a doubter. I ain't saying you glued the apples on the shrub for the pix. But i thought the apple tree needed some time in freezing weather, a certain number of chill hours (near freezing) "to set fruit".

    I suppose the dog whisperer covered it thus:


    Who could argue with years of reading and planting"? Still I remain skeptical. Show me an avocado or mango that'll grow outside in Ontario yearround. (It may go after 150 years of climate change.) Or how about y'all make maple syrup from 20+year old maple trees grown in Nicaragua.

    Plus I must ask: can you prune a tree for productivity in a climate where it never goes dormant without damaging, opening it to infection?
    YOu need to go on the site referenced, and they explain how it all works. It's not really a chilling the tree needs, but a gradual warming period that guarantees that the blossoms won't be hit by a cold snap.

    Not all trees do well in warm climates, but many do adapt. My vendor is in Riverside, California (about fifty miles east of LA). He's been doing this for quite a few years.
    The tree that bore the apples was not supposed to bear fruit for another two years; they have only been in the ground a year. Remember too, I am at some elevation, almost 4000 ft, so it does get pretty chilly in January and February.

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    Active TRN Member StickMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    OK, I'm a doubter. I ain't saying you glued the apples on the shrub for the pix. But i thought the apple tree needed some time in freezing weather, a certain number of chill hours (near freezing) "to set fruit".
    I asked the same question about Pecans some time back and that seemed to be the consensus, that they needed some cold time to set fruit.
    "Find out what it is in life that you don't do well - and then don't do that thing." -The most Interesting Man in the World

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    My experience with marginal (for the climate) plants is that they may thrive with a little pampering and then die when a once in 10 or once in 15 year weather episode happens. My guess here in the north that a rainy year like the 2 we had a few years ago will be the end. Even the well established potato crop got plagues. For the rest of the year we stopped buying Nic. potatoes because they were rotten or off-colored inside.

    I`ve grown apples in coastal Los Angeles with the varieties selected for low chill need, although I never heard of a commercial orchard. With many varieties and a high elevation, KWP may stumble into a variety and microclimate that may work, but it will need 15 years to prove out.

    I have seen at least one tree of the native walnut in Miraflor, so nut crops could be a possibility, but this type of thing takes decades of experimentation.

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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    There are tropical varieties that have low chill requirements. Fyl posted a link to a PDF about growing apples in Africa. CR and Mexico, and probably Guatemala grow them at higher elevations, but they have higher elevations than here. Some guy grows them near Jinotega (base elevation for town is 1000 meters, so higher than that at his farm).

    CR apparently has enough time below 45 F to set Grannie Smith fruit. The Israelis have worked on even lower chill apples. Don't know about the situation for apricots or peaches. Don't need freezing, just some cooler weather.


    Some exotic plant growing reminds me of the guy who wanted to grow peaches in Virginia in Zone 6 with winter temps lower than 10 below F pretty much every winter. He finally was talking about building a greenhouse for his peach trees. The simpler solution was to drive down about 40 miles into zone 7 and buy peaches there.

    Here has some amazing fruit that can't be shipped. I'm pigging out on pitaya now --- season is short but they're pretty wonderful when they're available. I've tried various other things and the street vendors are trying to get me to try a couple of other things. I had better apples in NY State and Pennsylvania than I had in Virginia -- the weather there is even better for long chill varieties and long chill varieties are the tastiest.

    I get that people who aren't very adaptable want the food they're used to, but it's just a sign of them missing the point of living in the tropics -- there's ever so many more things to grow here. Apples are nice, but I'd rather buy those when I'm in Pennsylvania and buy pitaya, avocado, black zapote, white piña, mangos, etc. here.

    I'm planning to visit England in April for a month and won't be looking for pitaya or black zapote when I'm there, though I may be trying Balti take away. I'll see what's grown and in season there that I wouldn't be able to get here or in the US. What's the point of traveling if you're importing your little USA with you?

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    House SOB Little Corn Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Ahhhh...the indelible, incredible and inedible MizBrown ..... making friends with every post, eh?
    Life's different here ... It's a whole 'nother pace.

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Corn Tom View Post
    Ahhhh...the indelible, incredible and inedible MizBrown .....
    INEDIBLE !! ______
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    My experience with marginal (for the climate) plants is that they may thrive with a little pampering and then die when a once in 10 or once in 15 year weather episode happens.
    I concur. I tell people all the time that with enough $$ and resources you can grow almost anything here, but the novelty wears off when you have to spend all your time keeping it alive.

    Far as growing apples or similiar stuff, I do not think it is about not being able to assimilate, some people enjoy a challenge just like some people like critisizing other people, different strokes for different folks.

    There are a lot of exciting things going on in Nicaragua Agriculture but at the end of the day it boils down to Rice and Beans, first you have to master the basics and with Beans touching 30 cords a pound right now and Rice being imported from the States the basics are obviously not being mastered.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    I`m not knocking growing apples here, just pointing out that decades, not years, are the time frame for testing it out and testing out the microclimate. Even the exposure, south facing slope or north facing slope, can make a difference.

    As for local produce, because of the elevation differences here, we geta lot of nutricious stuff that one would not get in the low tropics alone. Brocoli, carrots, beets, potatoes, etc. In fruits, Nic grows some tangerines and grapefruit that seem to me to have better taste than what I was used to in the US desert. whether or not these are ``foreign`` or ``American`` they are a great addition to the diet.

    I`m experimenting with pitayas. My plants at the house are just coming of age, I had one plant produce before the others, so I am taking cuttings to grow out more of these clones to test out to see if this is genetic or just some other variable like postion in the garden.. With pitayas it takes about 3 years from cutting to fruit, but more to see longterm durability.

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    so nut crops could be a possibility

    Here??? Without a doubt!!!!
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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    I`m not knocking growing apples here, just pointing out that decades, not years, are the time frame for testing it out and testing out the microclimate. Even the exposure, south facing slope or north facing slope, can make a difference.

    As for local produce, because of the elevation differences here, we geta lot of nutricious stuff that one would not get in the low tropics alone. Brocoli, carrots, beets, potatoes, etc. In fruits, Nic grows some tangerines and grapefruit that seem to me to have better taste than what I was used to in the US desert. whether or not these are ``foreign`` or ``American`` they are a great addition to the diet.

    I`m experimenting with pitayas. My plants at the house are just coming of age, I had one plant produce before the others, so I am taking cuttings to grow out more of these clones to test out to see if this is genetic or just some other variable like postion in the garden.. With pitayas it takes about 3 years from cutting to fruit, but more to see longterm durability.
    No doubt it takes lots of time to perfect anything, that is why I just dabble, plant some of this, some of that, what works I plant more of, what doesn't I may try a second time, after that I usually lose interest.

    We have a nice grapefruit on the Island, lots of seeds though, great for juice, I also have a few of what are supposed to be pink grapefruit. 1 of the trees had 2 blooms on it last year but no fruit, no blooms yet this year.
    I would like to have a better variety of citrus on my place, not much market there for anything other than Limes, Oranges, and Tangerines but more variety would be nice.

    I am sick about it but I am going to have to cut down some citrus trees I planted. I did not know exactly what they were and as luck would have it they are what we call Bitter and Sweet Oranges. I already have 3 mature trees and you can seldom even give them away (there are tons on the Island). talk about feeling dumb, watch a tree grow to bearing age only to cut it down. One more lesson learned the hard way.

    Got some Pithaya started one time but the weather was just too hard for it.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Are you talking about naranja agria? One tree is a necesity, it is used as a acidifying agent in cooking. More than one tree would be hard to use.maybe is could be used mixed with something else for a fresco or a jam.

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Not Agria. The Bitter and Sweet orange makes an ok juice, and that is the only thing I see it used for, it is kinda watery, usually I mix it with Calala (Maracuya) to make a fresco. I have been told that this variety only exists on the Atlantic Coast, few years ago I spent some time trying to figure out the "proper" name and came up empty.

    We have an orange that is close to if not the Agria, we call it Civil Orange, also commonly called "Dead People Orange", in older times and still to this day the deceased body is "bathed" with this, people also use it to help keep bad wounds from scarring.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by billbudsocket View Post
    Wrong. They're regular varieties of apples that have low chill requirements, not the other way around.
    Here's a low chill variety list - these apples are ALL from the USA - http://www.kuffelcreek.com/applelist.htm
    As usual you have no idea what you're talking about.


    Pitayas are already being grown in the USA, and Nicaraguan pitayas have been imported into the US markets for several years now (they were previously blocked from US import because of fruit fly infestation problems, nothing to do with the shelf life of the product).



    Good for you. Why do you care if other people like more variety in the foods that are available? Everything you post is negative.
    They are the same species as the other apples that have longer chill requirements. I, of course, was simplifying it for the people who never lived in apple-growing areas, and I've had to listen to someone decide that the reason people didn't grow commercial apples on Meadows of Dan mountain was that they were stupid. (There was a real reason that I found out after he went bankrupt -- late frost in May every third year and unsteady weather conditions. Fruit trees do best if the temperature changes and stays changed -- often around water

    Pitayas were being grown in S Flordia as early at 1959, apparently.

    There's more variety here than in the US.

  21. #21
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: My First Apples

    Quote Originally Posted by cookshow View Post
    I concur. I tell people all the time that with enough $$ and resources you can grow almost anything here, but the novelty wears off when you have to spend all your time keeping it alive.

    Far as growing apples or similiar stuff, I do not think it is about not being able to assimilate, some people enjoy a challenge just like some people like critisizing other people, different strokes for different folks.

    There are a lot of exciting things going on in Nicaragua Agriculture but at the end of the day it boils down to Rice and Beans, first you have to master the basics and with Beans touching 30 cords a pound right now and Rice being imported from the States the basics are obviously not being mastered.
    Guy admitted to not being able to assimilate in Mexico and tried to tell me how to live in Nicaragua before he'd ever lived here himself. I have a very low tolerance for people who don't know what they're talking about telling me how to live here.

    My impression is that for a lot of people who want the foods of home that there is a certain difficulty in fitting in here, not that I don't have brown rice and lentils in the cupboard. Some of it is assuming that growing plants is like running a factory.

    I think some people do things to be contrary.

    One of the problems is that marginal agricultural land is so pretty and gets up-marketed to gringos, so destroys any sort of upland farming where guys who actually grow their own food or grow for market can't make the land payments on what they can get from the land. There are places in the US that are as rural as they were in 1900, about the same population, but with different people. Only 4% can afford to be farmers and those are dying off (like my uncle who's still alive but not actively farming but probably still on the records as someone engaged in agriculture economically.

    Here's a little under 50% agriculture economically. They have to get something to replace agriculture because being dependent on agricultural market crops makes life rather less stable than having a garden and a day job. And being a landless farm worker is even more precarious unless people doing that have alternative employment that raises wages. The big land owners in my area of rural Virginia hated the factories because they then had to compete with better paid work for better workers.

  22. #22

    Default Re: My First Apples

    This woman is a petty, negative, lying, ugly,, sack of shit. I bought my farm here before she arrived. I did fine in Mexico, built a house on the Sea of Cortez, had a great time knocking around down there.

    Beyond the above comment, I will have nothing more to say.

    Just telling it like is . .. .

  23. #23

    Default Re: My First Apples


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