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Thread: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

  1. #51
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    We need someone to chime in with a story of true love. A Nicaraguan Fairly Tale so to speak . . . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    my wife ... She and I have been married for 23 years with no particular drama.
    OK it's not El Duende Grande telling us, and OK, it's set in Florida, but there are enough Nicaraguan family members in the area, that I say it qualifies. Hey, where are the cherubim smileys? No hearts throbbing, no schmaltzy lovey-dovey smiley face crap on TRN. Harsh!
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    People with fairy tale lives live behind big walls and don't talk to poor people or silly foreigners. Any Nica who has lived abroad is transformed from one century to another, sometimes more than one century.
    We have a decent relationship, but strained by family "issues", none fatal or violent or criminal, but annoying. Beware of the oldest daughter, they have obligations you cannot believe. Might give them character, but really sucks on time and stress.

    We have 4 couples we know outside the family who lead decent lives for the middle class rat race. 2 seem to be first timers, the other 2 are professional women who married divorcees. Each couple has 1 or 2 kids by the current marriage and seem to be doing well. None mention anything about extreme poverty, violence, sexual abuse in their past, although of course often things are not mentioned by successful people. We know another couple who are the rarest of all breeds: Nicaraguan retirees. Same deal, happy and spend a lot of time together. Their biggest worry is sending their daughter to university in Managua, the Sodom and Gomorrah of the Republic.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  3. #53
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    We need someone to chime in with a story of true love. A Nicaraguan Fairly Tale so to speak


    Waiting . . . . . .
    And you will wait a long time............

    Show me someone who professes decades of Matrimonial bliss and I'll show you someone who is either a liar or delusional.

    For us it is 27 years of kinship on Apr 27 - 25 yrs of marriage on July 18.

    It has been a long hard slog - Aside from the typical man woman stuff there was the "she speaks no English, I speak no Spanish" bit at the beginning. Then for her it was the punctual and frugal dutch in me. For me the non punctual and "If opportunity presents itself, pinch it" is not a sin sort. (Not pinch it from her, from her family)

    As I reflect back if it was not for her mother moving in with us, I doubt it would have passed 10 yrs.

    Even in the past 10 yrs things have come up that have only recently been put in some sort of control.

    Only 3 of the 7 who came up have had real benefit from it.

    But also even though they had dirt floors and no real means, the family was in the top half of Nicaragua social layer before they left. (Land, their own live stalk in Managua, a fair carbon selling business.
    ==================================================
    Dude !!!.... Its a Canal !!! Can you Dig it ??

  4. #54
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    No hearts throbbing, no schmaltzy lovey-dovey smiley face crap on TRN. Harsh!
    This is The REAL Nicaragua, after all.

    Kevin seems to get some of that, but keeps it to himself.

  5. #55
    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Jonh's daughter reads the site so will keep this G rated, 2 new friends last night, they promised to introduce more to me today. What can you do.

    Not buying Land with any..
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

  6. #56
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by cookshow View Post
    Jonh's daughter reads the site so will keep this G rated, 2 new friends last night, they promised to introduce more to me today. What can you do.

    Not buying Land with any..
    You are the man!

  7. #57
    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    As the South Texan said, "Maintain Control".
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

  8. #58

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Dicho Americano--"Don't take anything to Latin America that you cannot afford to lose".

    Where is Don Fyl to tell us to live like a Nica?

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  9. #59
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Humans, no matter how grand the endeavor, are prone to folly. The very wise are reluctant to act at all. Fools leap naked into the fray. When it come to romance, to passion, - dare we say - to love, men are their most foolish. And their most euphoric, naturally. All know the truism, love is blind. (For many, the term ‘lust’ for ‘love’ fits as well.) Love is also deaf to all advice no matter how sincere and well-intended. And so it fumbles onward.

    The twists & turns of mixed culture romances fascinate us all for they lay bare the raw differences that all try to avoid confronting when living in a truly foreign place by fitting in. We adapt, to the extent we must & can. But in bonding a couple from very different cultures must resolve conflicting thinking, values, and beliefs to continue together for long. Personalities , of course, matter, but IMO, the culture of the country in which the pair live most strongly influences the outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    ... Then for her it was the punctual and frugal dutch in me. For me the non punctual and "If opportunity presents itself,
    Bill has hit upon two key cultural difference twixt us foreigners from the industrial North and Nicas from tropical Latin America: time and conservation, which is to say, the inclination to save - money is merely a symbol - versus the tendency to go with the flow, ‘aprovechar’ the moment, “spend it if you got it”. We say, “Time = money.” For most Nicas it’s more accurate to say they think: Time = Life. Many churches in Latin America have clocks - have you ever seen any that tell the right time (other than twice a day!)? If you arrive punctually to a function in Nicaragua (or LAm), you’ve made a mistake. Plan? God plans.

    The roots of the differences are practically instinctual, instilled over hundreds of years, many generations. All civilizations were built upon farmers. With Northern winters planning and storing were critical to survival. “Waste not, want not.” In the tropics edibles grow year around. Ditto as for shelter & clothing. Clearly sex is universal, but libidos are more passionate in hotter climes. And so are tempers. When my wife & I fight, she immediately goes nuclear - no middle ground - she throws the very worst she knows about me in my face. Fortunately for us, she ‘forgets’ it all after a couple hours. I learn from ‘em, to avoid such future conflicts, spending more time in my neutral corner. And so we define for each other our roles.

    ‘Frugal’ is a nice word. On expenses, I strain to keep us within my budget, to maintain fiscal control. She sees me as a tight-wad, cheap-skate with a cold heart. The money I earned and saved cost me hours of labor, often unpleasantly stressful. Those were hours of my life . . . gone. She and her kids don’t value, don’t know what I sacrificed. Tough toenails. It’s mine - for us, I control how it’s spent, more or less.

    So goes the sing-song of our marriage. It’s no tale told by fairies, but it has emerged into an agreeable pact. Like Bill & Chilo we were together 2 years before marrying, so it was with eyes open to knowing each others' foibles & faults (OK, an introduction to 'em). She and her relatives (yes, I too bought the family-sized package) have sidestepped the cycle of rustic poverty. (Even tho she sees her past as tho it were a happy-slappy Disney movie.) They're getting good educations. And I escaped the too impersonal North after getting downsized & divorced. I was trapped, thinking too much about dying and too little about living. Now I worry about dying as much as I worried about being born. Life is good.




    Last edited by Daddy-YO; 04-03-2017 at 11:45 AM.
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  10. #60
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Original you was Bill. "You would be correct" is you. We're not getting too specific because and stuff.

  11. #61
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post

    Life in Nic, is a hardship tour and double that in the life robbing, mind robbing countryside.

    I'm always amazed by people who are sentimental about country life. I was in rural Virginia for ten years, five of them more than necessary. Here I live in a town of 50,000. Gringos who buy country property are asking to be resented and often robbed.

    On the cultural front, one thing to keep in mind is that poor people often are matriarchal -- and her family is more important to her than you are (long cultural traditions of women being able to earn as much as men in more typical rural work). Her brothers are the men in the family. This isn't better or worse than the more traditional middle class marriage where he supports her while she runs the household (often with help if there are sufficient poor people around. Most of the middle class here had both partners working, often in front of the house in a store, law office, or clinic. The children are tended by a maid.

  12. #62
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    ". . . .She has posted that his family hasn't asked her for loans. He's quite a bit younger than she is...."

    Wait, I'm confused here, He is Nicaraguan? Family hasn't asked for money?
    Maybe they don't know about her?? He's married with a bunch of kids and is keeping the Gringa a secret??

    What other possibility is there.

    We're all so cynical. .
    We need someone to chime in with a story of true love.

    She had the family women show up at the wedding. I think all of her gringo friends were wincing when they heard he wanted to marry her. So far, so good, at least from what I've heard. Maybe he realizes that she's put all her money in the buildings. She's already gotten her buildings built despite LOTS of problems with contractors. Unlike the guys who have talked more game that they had (fyl and you), she had a plan and worked it all the way through despite some real rat shit contractors. European born, American citizen out of Nevada, apparently. I have to give her props for getting her buildings built and modifying the plan to be a bit more realistic about Anglo tourism here in the mountains.

  13. #63
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    Dicho Americano--"Don't take anything to Latin America that you cannot afford to lose".

    Where is Don Fyl to tell us to live like a Nica?

    What kind of Nica? I live like my friend with the Swedish pension except without a car. She's Nicaraguan, Jinotegano family, on the third marriage, kids in Sweden, various kin here. Family is politically connected and educated. She probably has more money than I do and owns a hotel and a coffee finca. One of the things that was utterly hypocritical about Fyl was his disdain for middle class or upper class Nicaraguans, but at the same time, owning land and trying to fantasize about running a hotel up country.

    Next door, my new landlord's son runs a dental clinic. My former landlord remodeled the house I was in and is building a new one and runs a cybercafe and computer shop. I live like these Nicas. My housekeeper (once a week, otherwise is my friend's hotel cook and cleaner) is probably the poorest person I know, but she and her husband both work, and she's not got more than one or two children.

  14. #64

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Yes, our middle class neighbors have both spouses working. More and more people are having trouble finding maids--the good ones are working and the others you don't want in your house. College students are somewhat of a joke-- they are in school to play or to avoid working or to have an excuse to escape from their families or the countryside. Even the relatives don't want to house sit for fear their house will get robbed.

    My grandmother was right, the rich get richer and the poor have babies. Her whole family virtually died out because they made too much money and too few babies. Not to worry, they can be replaced by immigrants? But how do you replace the talent of world class professionals.... That does not come easy.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  15. #65
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Fyl's "live like a Nica" thing was based on a utopian vision of a Nicaragua that never existed. There may be a few nice hard working Nicas with high morals and ethics who live on that mythical dollar a day, but I doubt it.

  16. #66
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Fyl's "live like a Nica" thing was based on a utopian vision of a Nicaragua that never existed. There may be a few nice hard working Nicas with high morals and ethics who live on that mythical dollar a day, but I doubt it.
    My housekeeper makes probably $5 or $6 a day from her day job and gets another $6.75 to $10 cleaning once a week for a couple hours for me (once a month, she does the upstairs rooms that I don't have anyone living in). Nobody in town is living off $1 a day and anyone in the country only lives on that as a cash income by growing all their food and relying on used clothes (the handweaving tradition here was destroyed in the 1940s). It would be do-able only where food was easy to grow.

    I had someone have a fit on the San Juan del Sur group because of what I pay my housekeeper (too much, he thought). If she was doing something I liked doing, I'd pay her less, but having had some health problems last year, I like having someone over to make sure the house isn't growing mushrooms.

    If she's making $6 a day and her husband is making about that, and if they've inherited a house, as people do, they've got $12 a day, not great wages, but 12 times the $1 a day of the extremely poor, generally people stranded in the country by their fears that they wouldn't be able to survive in the cities and knowing that they'll be able to eat absent really bad weather.

    Her husband has picked her up in a taxi -- don't know if he's driving a cab for a living or what.

    I gathered that fyl's fantasy also included a huge dose of "you can come here and make a living" which tends to mean "yeah, on Nicaraguan wages," or by hustling other gringos, sometimes both.

  17. #67
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MizBrown View Post
    Original you was Bill. "You would be correct" is you. We're not getting too specific because and stuff.
    And you are you being you with Jinotegian bardishness.

    To get specific and loosely relevant to the topic at hand, did you author the Virginia-is-for-lovers campaign and bumper stickers while a resident?
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

  18. #68
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    And you are you being you with Jinotegian bardishness.

    To get specific and loosely relevant to the topic at hand, did you author the Virginia-is-for-lovers campaign and bumper stickers while a resident?
    Hell, no. My contribution to Virginia Literature was something called SLOW FUNERAL, about the evil of the place and its stagnation.

  19. #69

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MizBrown View Post
    Hell, no. My contribution to Virginia Literature was something called SLOW FUNERAL, about the evil of the place and its stagnation.

    Your contribution to Nicaraguan literature had to be the short story about the guy who was murdered in his sleep, cut up with a chain saw, and then burned.
    That was four years ago??

    The meat cutting bandsaw was a nice touch,, much neater than a chainsaw. They till use a lot of axes in the campo to butcher pigs. Messy.

    NOW,, if the family of the girl had pigs they might have gotten away with it. As I remember someone saw them burning something and that led to the discovery of the body.

    Pigs would have left no evidence.

  20. #70

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    The fog of time, but I remember it being a circular saw, much cheaper than a chainsaw. Does anybody know if his wife in the US got his belongings back or did they go to the girls family? I heard the baby died of "change of climate" after the killer was moved to mga because she was having too much fun being on house arrest in Esteli. We saw her at a swimming pool one day and she didn't seem to be having much more fun than the average person.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  21. #71

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    What WAS the guy's name??
    I remember that he had a place in MiraFlor he was trying to develop.

    Fog of time has erased much of the detail.

    Here's a good recount of the Eric Volz story:

    https://www.outsideonline.com/192082...and-her-murder

  22. #72

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Holy Frijoli, that was 10 years ago! My how time flies.
    http://www.therealnicaragua.com/Foru...ase-gets-WORSE

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  23. #73
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post

    NOW,, if the family of the girl had pigs they might have gotten away with it.
    http://www.kmov.com/story/35054052/k...ound-near-pigs

  24. #74
    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Maybe someone will remember, can find. That Guy's Wife posted here or NL that she had got word her Husband was sick (Dead was what he was), always thought it was odd she knew soon as it happened.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

  25. #75
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    He texted her 4am the night he was murdered, "I still love you."

    There's a lot of misinformation surrounding this story. The St Pete Times story copied by Randude (where are you?) in the following link is the most reliable,
    http://www.therealnicaragua.com/Foru...t-gets-weirder

    Tresfrijoles (and you? Joshua Berman of Moon's Nica guide?) translated Nuevo Diario articles but they're weirdly wrong in parts.

    I've never read a good after-all-the-facts-are-in accounting.

    The Quakers of St Pete, FL, clearly want to let Ken R.I.P. (not pieces, Bill)
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

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