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Thread: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

  1. #101

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    im late to this thread. but it certainly is interesting.

    One thing ive noticed with the various stories brought up in this thread, or referred to over time about gringos coming to nicaragua and ending up in trouble, is that many time, the gringo is seen as innocent, and a victim of the poor, uneducated and morally corrupt nica. It so easy to blame the poor and corrupt society, and the broken justice system in Nicaragua. What sounds easier to swallow, that an american had bad intentions and was involved in sketchy things? or that a 3rd world country has a corrupt court system that screws people over. Whenever western news picks up a story about a foreigner going to jail here, its always a story about how they are getting screwed over and the family is petitioning to let them go back to their home country and their family.

    Remember, even in the states, youd be hard pressed to find a "guilty" man in jail. Even there, the lawyers screwed them over, the brother was lying, the police planted evidence, or it was a case of mistaken identity. "wasnt me". and even if someone admits to a lesser offense, they have some reason as to why, or who REALLY was at fault......not them.

    I see it all the time on different travel boards. Some gringo comes down and gets a ticket while driving, and of course, its a story about the corrupt police getting a bribe from an innocent gringo. Of course, the gringo cant speak spanish, so they arent sure if thats actually what was being said. And of course, the gringo doesnt know the rules, so they arent sure if they actually committed an infraction. and of course the gringo doesnt know the fines or the procedures, so they arent sure if thats a bribe, or just the price of the ticket, or if taking the license is a threat, or standard procedure, etc.
    I also know a lot of gringos who come down and figure its the land of no laws, so drive as fast as they want, following no traffic rules because its "fun". Driving is not the only area this applies to. "No one here cares if you do some coke or weed." "The police are all corrupt, so you can just bribe them even if you are caught." "Tons of people come down to sleep with teenage girls, no one cares".
    I once saw a post on a facebook page where someone was telling someone else, in a positive way, that it was legal to get prostitutes as young as 12 here. and the first guys replied, dude thats awesome, and no one cares? to which the guy said nope, people do it all the time and dont even hide it.


    no one deserves to get hacked up, or anything even remotely close to that, no matter what they did. But there are always (at least) two sides to every story. and if it were ever possible to get all the sides to a story, it would be amazing to find out that there arent as many completely innocent people as it seems. (not a specific statement about the story that started this thread by the way, which i know nothing about personally)

  2. #102
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Yep, I've seen lots of lecherous immoral gringos go to Nicaragua thinking they'll get free [kitty cat] of any age they choose, and end up as pig slop figuratively.

  3. #103
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    ... lots of lecherous immoral gringos ... end up as pig slop figuratively.
    Hey,that seems like a blatant attempt to tweek TRN's own Pirate, not because he's lecherous or immoral - no way, Jose - but because he's a pig farmer with 13 piglets and a voracious sow to feed. Literally he may be figuring now how many l.i.g.'s he'll need to lure to Condega, say, for a working Nicaraguan eco-farm vacation (with a sub-text of lechery).
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

  4. #104
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    KWP doesn't come across as a sociopath looking to lure gringos to the slaughter. But I've been wrong before...

  5. #105

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    " . . .so drive as fast as they want,... "

    Please tell me where ... We're talking Nicaragua right?? Maybe after ten PM. .

  6. #106

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Those pigs are growing so fast. Little fatties. I've sold three males, buyers want them uncastrated to breed. I'm going to keep two of my three females,, in 13 - 15 months they will be new mothers. Goes really fast with the pigs, and a pretty sure deal. People eat chicken and pork here, not much beef

    When we talked about housing them so close, it was a question of odor and flies we were concerned with. We haven't had that problem,, but those little guys can squeal! Mostly, sleep the night after ten PM but up at first light nursing, sow grunting,, pigs squealing for their piece of the "pie." They drain her quickly but are back again in a half hour.

    I've started to wean them with some success. The sooner I can confidently get them self sustaining the sooner I can turn the sow.



    What is particularly aggravating is,, I never wanted to get into the pig (or big time chicken business). Krisnia and I cooked up this idea to create a self-sustaining source of money to pay her university expenses.

    Now,, I have the pigs and the slop, and someone else has Krisnia...
    Is there no justice in the world?

  7. #107
    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyljunkie77003 View Post
    im late to this thread. but it certainly is interesting.



    I also know a lot of gringos who come down and figure its the land of no laws, so drive as fast as they want, following no traffic rules because its "fun". Driving is not the only area this applies to. "No one here cares if you do some coke or weed." "The police are all corrupt, so you can just bribe them even if you are caught." "Tons of people come down to sleep with teenage girls, no one cares".
    I once saw a post on a facebook page where someone was telling someone else, in a positive way, that it was legal to get prostitutes as young as 12 here. and the first guys replied, dude thats awesome, and no one cares? to which the guy said nope, people do it all the time and dont even hide it.


    no one deserves to get hacked up, or anything even remotely close to that, no matter what they did. But there are always (at least) two sides to every story. and if it were ever possible to get all the sides to a story, it would be amazing to find out that there arent as many completely innocent people as it seems. (not a specific statement about the story that started this thread by the way, which i know nothing about personally)

    I think Eric Voltz did it -- there's a YouTube video of the scratches on his back that he said was caused by the rough pine coffin and the police posting the video said looked more like human nail scratches. There was another guy whose US family was promoting that he was framed and that seems to have gone away when the girl delivered her baby (DNA tests would have proved who was the daddy).

    As for coke and weed -- I know a government lawyer who think it should be legal. The way the Jinotega police seem to handle it is rather like the way killings in and around an adulterous bed are handled in the US South -- nobody else is guilty either, so if your druggie friends rob you, that's not a legal problem. Our local pot smoking gringa's nephew who was here to beat a statutory rape case (16 year old when he was 20 or so) left to avoid being arrested here on something else.

    When various people tried to figure out how to get Basil Givner off, I figured that various other people could have worked to give Eric Voltz an alibi.

    The thing with underaged girls is that they will go to the cops under certain conditions. One of the things that got one guy busted was that he put the girls' photos up on Facebook.

    One of the mistakes people make is assuming that uneducated means naive and gullible, and strong gender roles mean women are submissive. Studies in the US trying to find a mental illness cause for crime found that the sanest people in poor neighborhoods were the criminals.

    Anyone doing tourism here in the north central mountains, especially ego/eco tourism, sigh. The trait of being blindly romantic about what one can do here goes with being blindly romantic about a woman with whom one has not even a language in common. Girl in San Juan del Sur fell for a sleazy surfer druggie and serial exploiter of women. She posted his photo. He looked like a sleaze. Being blind to the danger signs is part of being a gullible victim, and some of the problem is arrogance on the part of the person who is sure he or she can control the situation because of an economic role held in the US. Lots of people confuse institutional empowerment (your job description as manager) with personal power (sometimes yes, or the boss give you some of his because you're not a threat to him).

  8. #108
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    The adventures continue. Man kills Nica honey and then himself because she was working to sent money back to Nica. Tsk, tsk, a Nica man would just beat her for not making lunch.
    http://www.radiolavozdelnorte.com/20...uicido-en.html

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  9. #109

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    The adventures continue. Man kills Nica honey and then himself because she was working to sent money back to Nica. Tsk, tsk, a Nica man would just beat her for not making lunch.
    http://www.radiolavozdelnorte.com/20...uicido-en.html


    I think it's something deeper and more profound than that. It might be this:

    http://www.radiolavozdelnorte.com/20...ner-es-un.html

    Mother wants $10K to bring the body back to Nicaragua. I'll do it for $5K including border bribes but we'll have to find a freezer for her until December. My load is pretty well determined but I can always strap her on top a la National Lampoon's Vacation

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVZ5u8ES28o

  10. #110
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    but I can always strap her on top a la National Lampoon's Vacation
    Weekend at Bernice's?
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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    I have never checked into it, but I suspect moving a body internationally is quite expensive. I suspect 10k is actual cost with no comish to the mom.
    I have left instructions that if I croak in Nic. that I be buried the next day in the graveyard in Tisey in a plain pine box and no religious service. Face down so the whole world can kiss my butt.

    Fact is in this sad case in Georgia, the PDG (poor dumb gringo) wanted a wife and she wanted a green card. Bad combination.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  12. #112

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    I have never checked into it, but I suspect moving a body internationally is quite expensive. I suspect 10k is actual cost with no comish to the mom.
    I have left instructions that if I croak in Nic. that I be buried the next day in the graveyard in Tisey in a plain pine box and no religious service. Face down so the whole world can kiss my butt.

    Fact is in this sad case in Georgia, the PDG (poor dumb gringo) wanted a wife and she wanted a green card. Bad combination.

    " . . . Fact is in this sad case in Georgia, the PDG (poor dumb gringo) wanted a wife and she wanted a green card. Bad combination.

    Common enough arrangement. Did Ivanka marry Donald for love?

    In this case we don't have enough information to determine what really went south for them. Clearly, the Nicaraguan family is disappointed that the money stream is interrupted. The cynic in me questions the explanation given.
    Small amounts of money are huge in Nicaragua,, especially in the campo. What to us would be an insignificant sum,, say $100 monthly, makes a big difference. The DAILY minimum pay for a farm worker is 128 cords. If no lunch is provided, add 30 cords.

    What you see in reality is,, the potential income depends on the options the worker has. Over the last two years. for example, the road being paved from Condega to the enpalme to my farm paid 200 cords a day and hired a lot of workers. Interestingly, this is less than the minimum for construction workers, which is 300 cords daily. That work is complete now, leaving an appetite for cash to make those motorcycle payments, but few on-going opportunities to satisfy that appetite.

    The newly paved road facilitated access to the exploding tobacco business in Condega. It's a long day, the 6:30 AM bus, and back on the 4:30 PM bus. I see a number of motorcycles leave even earlier, with two people. It's an easy ride downhill but a struggle back up with two passengers. Especially that last 6KM which is steep uphill, not paved, and goes to $hit in the rainy season.

    Others leave to work the construction boom in Estelí, or for the puro factories, and spend the week. This is an even tougher row to hoe, as the worker gets less than one full day home each week. Most of the work is 5 and one half days, so with the bus schedules,, the worker leaves Sunday evening and comes back home Saturday evening.

    Further complicating things is, many if not most of the campo workers are functionally illiterate.


    But, it's consistent money. Most of the campo work comes in dribbles,, and it's how I do business now to avoid the overhead. If you have an employee any number of requirements kick in,, but if you hire a crew to complete a project like a fence, or clearing a piece of land, you avoid these costs. You pay the agreed upon price and your obligation is complete. It comes out to less money as the crew works quickly to complete the project.

    I also have no intention of returning to the US for burial. What would be the point?

  13. #113

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    I also have no intention of returning to the US for burial. What would be the point?
    I'll be the last one worrying about how my body is disposed of after I die. I would be pissed if my fam spent 10k in corpse shipping fees. Cremation is much more efficient, not sure why Nica doesn't do it. You could build a temp crematorium easy enough. In BLU they will even deliver propane tanks to you by motorcycle. Then you would just need a grinder and a nice box that would fit in a carry on bag.

  14. #114
    House SOB Little Corn Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by kwah2249 View Post
    I'll be the last one worrying about how my body is disposed of after I die. I would be pissed if my fam spent 10k in corpse shipping fees. Cremation is much more efficient, not sure why Nica doesn't do it. You could build a temp crematorium easy enough. In BLU they will even deliver propane tanks to you by motorcycle. Then you would just need a grinder and a nice box that would fit in a carry on bag.
    Wayyyyyy to much work.

    Tie two rocks to me, dump me in 50' or more of water and let me be recycled as quickly as possible.

    Spend the money on a party.

    No silly rituals.
    Life's different here ... It's a whole 'nother pace.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Corn Tom View Post
    Amen, Bro....Amen......

    It would be great if "Swinging Richards" could think and analyze, but this is rarely the case. Everything you say is true......but almost universally ignored as we have seen over the years on TRN.

    Better to bring your love(er) to Nica with you and find your spot.

    I remember riding the panga to Little Corn one trip and noticing this gringo and his Nica wife. He was middle aged, over weight and jovial. She was drop dead gorgeous......by any standard in this world. I mean she was staggeringly beautiful. Well we ended up at the same place to stay on Little Corn (Derek's Place) and I got to watch him dote on her (as would any male on this planet) while she made eye contact with any other male around her. There was no way that there was a happy ending to this relationship.....at least for him.

    Oh well....welcome to planet earth, eh?


    i've been thinking land and hard about all of this (Old guys and younger girls) . I suspect that many if not most who come to Nicaragua are "it's about the journey and not the destination" people. On this site there is clearly a balance, and this balance offers a nice perspective. A few have established connections to Nicaragua,, such as a wife.

    A few make a good connection here, but it's not easy. Language and culture get in the way of a relationship, and the chosen target is often simply not suitable.

    Like the well documented account of a 72 YO interested in an 18 YO.
    Still, we never do find out what finally happens with Professor Higgins and Eliza.
    So, the romantic fool in us lives on.
    'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all . . . doesn't really apply but suggests the motivation.

    ALL of my siblings are "destination" people. Successful, asset-rich, settled, happy. No divorces. Watch a lot of football.
    If they travel it's an organized tour, a cruise.

    I've been there, but the grass has always been greener on the other side of the fence.
    Curse, or blessing ?? It comes down to, journey or destination ????

    There are many answers to "Why Are You In Nicaragua"? As many have pointed out,, you can probably live less expensively in some rural areas of the US, and still have access to superior health care, better food, and a wider range of amenities.

    But,, still they come to Nicaragua.

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    and women who think like you do.

    In the US if you said "you can take the girl out of the country but you can't take the country out of the girl" it would be a compliment.
    Not so here.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by kwah2249 View Post
    Cremation is much more efficient, not sure why Nica doesn't do it. You could build a temp crematorium easy enough.
    Back before the TRN/NL split, I suggested solar cremation. With the body upright atop a tower encircled by arrays of parabolic mirrors. If the tower is made of wood, consider it a funeral pyre. A steel tower would be a commercial concern. Temperatures of the focused sunlight can exceed 1,800°F. Of course, this is a developed renewable energy technology. Worldwide there are 4,815 Concentrated Solar Power (CSP) plants as of 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    There are many answers to "Why Are You In Nicaragua"? As many have pointed out,, you can probably live less expensively in some rural areas of the US, and still have access to superior health care, better food, and a wider range of amenities.
    Good ol' Jino-Tony from the NL days came to Nicaragua to die. He was an Englishman who worked freelance IT in Texas. When he got cancer, his wife left him. Divorced he was no longer covered by her insurance. His daughter couldn't take him in. Knowing the cancer was terminal, he came to Jinotega where he stayed til death on tourist visas (3 yrs?). He ran a cyber cafe and took in an abandoned woman with her boy. She helped feed & care for him; he left her his life savings, some $9,000(?). With the help of willing pharmacists, doctors and the local hospital he kept the pain at bay - affordable.

    Dying ain't cheap in the States, what with all the reg's. Cremation costs $2,000 to $4,000. And tho they mostly ate gallo pinto, the quality of care he got in Nicaragua, practically for free, couldn't be touched in the States except by the uber-rich.
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

  18. #118
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    On this site there is clearly a balance, and this balance offers a nice perspective. A few have established connections to Nicaragua,, such as a wife.
    I am pretty sure that if something happens to Maria my interest in Niclandia will cease as well. It is a nice place with nice people and the like, but in no way would I look to rehook up with someone young (Did the parenting, child rearing thang, not looking to do that again). Any other of relation would be awkward with the money undertones .

    Probably head up north and tend a park beside the wawa goose or something...

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    Last edited by bill_bly_ca; 06-28-2017 at 12:01 PM.
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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    I'm kind of the same way, there just wouldn't be the attraction to Nicaragua, despite all the wonderful in-laws down there. Not being a rich gringo, I'll never be anyone's sugar daddy so no young hotties are likely to gravitate toward me.

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    funeral-being buried the next day, no enbalment or anything is about as cheap as it gets. Somebody you know will have a pickup to haul your carcass for free.
    Speaking of pickups, I have told my wife I want to be buried in my pickup, sitting up with my hands on the timon, like a Viking King buried in his war ship. In my heart of hearts, I think she is going to let me down.

    Tony told me his wife divorced him BECAUSE he wanted to move to Nic. In most cases, like 50 states and the District of Columbia, I think this would be legal grounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    Back before the TRN/NL split, I suggested solar cremation. With the body upright atop a tower encircled by arrays of parabolic mirrors. If the tower is made of wood, consider it a funeral pyre. A steel tower would be a commercial concern. Temperatures of the focused sunlight can exceed 1,800°F. Of course, this is a developed renewable energy technology. Worldwide there are 4,815 Concentrated Solar Power (CSP) plants as of 2016


    Good ol' Jino-Tony from the NL days came to Nicaragua to die. He was an Englishman who worked freelance IT in Texas. When he got cancer, his wife left him. Divorced he was no longer covered by her insurance. His daughter couldn't take him in. Knowing the cancer was terminal, he came to Jinotega where he stayed til death on tourist visas (3 yrs?). He ran a cyber cafe and took in an abandoned woman with her boy. She helped feed & care for him; he left her his life savings, some $9,000(?). With the help of willing pharmacists, doctors and the local hospital he kept the pain at bay - affordable.

    Dying ain't cheap in the States, what with all the reg's. Cremation costs $2,000 to $4,000. And tho they mostly ate gallo pinto, the quality of care he got in Nicaragua, practically for free, couldn't be touched in the States except by the uber-rich.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"


  21. #121

    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    "........funeral-being buried the next day, no enbalment or anything is about as cheap as it gets.....

    Also keeps the malpractice claims to a minimum. But., a quickie cremation would be even better.
    I've known of a couple of deaths that were highly questionable . . .

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    Probably head up north and tend a park beside the wawa goose or something...
    Feliz Dia de Canada! July 1 marks 150 years of being a single Dominion within the British Empire - sounds powerful!

    I wandered into Canada on several occasions. Once they refused to let me enter, but that's another story. It was the time I drove the fam to Toronto-Montreal-Quebec for a week long, expenses-paid conference that I remember best.. As we entered and I fiddled with the radio for a station, it became clear just how foreign this nothern land is. I found at least 3 excellent classical music stations - heaven on earth. (I have yet to find one such station in Nicaragua.) Later we sat picnicing on the lawn-shore of Ontario Island for the Canada Day fireworks celebration - not only was classical music piped everywhere over a quality PA system, but the fireworks on the lake were coordinated with the music. Beautiful. The fam loved Montreal, but for me walled-in Quebec overlooking the St. Lawrence became and remains my favorite North American city. It wasn't just the quaint setting, but more the joyous & colorful street life.

    On a later trip we visited Victoria-Vancouver (before the Han invasion). Canada is so damned civilized, it's borderline aseptic. And thus the attraction of Nicaragua - a sampler of what life in the rest of the world, the parts untouched by or resistant to imperial progress, is like, raw & real, yet surprisingly civil in its own way.
    Last edited by Daddy-YO; 06-29-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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  23. #123
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post

    On a later trip we visited Victoria-Vancouver (before the Han invasion).
    Maria and my first vay cay together in '91, was a drive out to BC in a spiffy (new to me) 1986 Mazda B2000 P/U.

    By the time we reached "da tunder bay" (Thunderbay Ontario) she was already tired on how big the place is. You can not drive west through Ontario and leave the province in 24 hours. Well, that is observing the speed limit. That was the 3rd time I passed the goose and the Terry Fox memorial. Northern Ontario has always fascinated me. We toured around Vancouver and the island and then trucked down to the US to drive back with cheap gas and lodging.

    Arriving at the White Rock crossing we found that she had grabbed her mother's passport, not hers (She was still Permanent resident at that time). A few moments of 'splaining got us across with a smile and wave. Such simpler times then. You could cross and go shopping or see the falls with just a drivers license then.
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  24. #124
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    funeral-being buried the next day, no enbalment or anything is about as cheap as it gets. Somebody you know will have a pickup to haul your carcass for free.
    Oscar, SIL husband, thought he had it all figured out in 2010 - On a trip down there he paid (Partially) for a plot, a casket, even arranged a P/U and white chairs for his ailing Mothers' end. In 2012 she passed. He spent 3 days getting the Casket to show up, the truck to show up, the chairs to show etc etc. Lesson taken is you make the arrangements when it happens and if there is no one to make the arrangements for you, it is not your worry :-)
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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save El Porton Verde (and my son!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    "........funeral-being buried the next day, no enbalment or anything is about as cheap as it gets.....Also keeps the malpractice claims to a minimum. But., a quickie cremation would be even better.
    I've known of a couple of deaths that were highly questionable . . .
    You mean you weren't sure they were actually dead? That's why embalming was invented, I've heard. To make sure they're dead before burying them. Apparently it used to be a thing, they'd bury someone and then later hear muffled screams and scratching on the casket lid.

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