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Thread: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    I don't visit FB often - too tutti fruiti. Besides, my wife de-friended me. But since my daughters stopped writing emails . . . Here's a bit I caught that features our MizBrown, bard of Jinotega (Rebecca B), so you know it'll entertain, and hopefully, inform:


    6/27/17 Lisa V Fruits, Vegetables and Medicinal Plants: I live on Costa Rica's Caribbean side. Here we can get most every kind of good, fresh fruits and vegetables. We also have an abundance of medicinal plants. I want to know about the availability of these on the Pacific coast of Nicaragua, as I am thinking of moving there. I am interested in generally knowing if there is easy access to good healthy produce. And... Specifically: 1. Noni 2. Guanabana/Soursop 3. Carao

    Rebecca B - I know Guanabana is available here. Cassia grandis is native from Mexico to northern South America (per Wikipedia). Noni can apparently cause hepatitis on occasion (per Wikipedia again).
    Hari - Big Pharma has high-jacked Wikipedia. Don't believe anything they have to say about alternative/herbal remedies
    Rebecca B - I never believe anything Big Herbal says, either.
    Hari - Big herbal? LOL! Is there really such a thing?
    Hari - The point was, that Wikipedia has become compromised witj disinformation, by the plutochracy
    Rebecca B to Hari - as a Wikipedia editor and a friend of someone on the Wikipedia Board, I don't think you're right. I've know too many flakey herbalist and saw the prices on the rubbish they were selling as cures for cancer, AIDS, and diabetes (pokeberry).
    J Mac - Wikipedia content requires evidence. That is not the same as "Big Pharma has high-jacked Wikipedia". If there is evidence of a plant remedy, from a reputable source (read: a scientific research report), then the information can be incorporated into a pertinent entry in Wikipedia. I have authored parts of numerous entries in wikipedia, so I can state with confidence that what you are saying is just not so. This is not at all an issue of Big Anything-it's an issue of evidence-based argument. Notwithstanding biographies of living people, I doubt that there is another area where "plutocracy" would fit objectively. If you really think this, Hari, give a specific example of the medicinal plant, the objective evidence of its utility, and evidence of the suppression of this information by wikipedia. Spoiler--there is a discussion page on each entry, so any comments that were added and then later suppressed would appear there, so the history of such manipulation would be evident. It would even show who did the suppression, when, and possibly why. It is up to you to demonstrate your claim, which I think is just not accurate on multiple levels.
    Rebecca B - And most of Big Herbal is Multi-Level Marketing schemes.
    Hari - The truth shall always prevail. Some still believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was the nutty lone gunman that shot JFK. Most are no longer even aware of the implications. "Big herbal" as a subsidiar(ies) of one or more of the multinationals , can be
    Hari - Considered a part of the plutochracy. Your rather naive assertion that Wikipedia is infallible to manipulation, is not so. One need only to point to who is funding specific research. In order to predict the hypotheses.
    Rebecca B - Yes, the plants are in Nicaragua, plus you can find New Agers in San Juan del Sur.
    Rebecca B to Hari - Cuban intelligence manipulated Oswald. LBJ said, "Kennedy tried to get Castro, but Castro got him."
    J Mac to Hari - Let's pick a specific example: Carao (Cassia grandis). There has been some amount of scientific research on its antidiabetic properties, among other potential medical uses. Nonetheless, none of that research appears in the English wikipedia article (I did not check the other languages). In fact, the article is what is called a "stub", with little text and insufficient references on all issues regarding this species. Here is an example of a comprehensive review of plant-based treatments of diabetes mellitus, in which research using is discussed: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609313/. If you follow the rules of Wikipedia, which are not substantially more involved than using facebook, you can upload a comment about this research and reference it accordingly. You do not have to be a guru to do this (you), nor do you have to have a Ph.D. (me). You just have to cite legitimate sources, and make the comments accurate and relevant. Your comments will go immediately onto the description page and also into a history page which shows the different edits made on the article, by whom, by date, etc. Someone could come into the discussion and suppress your input, but the history page would show who did, and why. That someone would suppress your input is more likely because you did a poor job of it. If Big Pharm suppresses it, then come back here, and we would then have something interesting to discuss.
    Diabetes mellitus: An overview on its pharmacological aspects and…NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV
    Hari - The documented evidence should you care to examine it, points to LBJ as a key figure in both the assassination, as well as the cover-up. He assembled the Warren commission, whose lone gunman/"magic bullet" theory, was later debunked by congressional review.
    Rebecca B to Hari - mheh, and Jack Ruby shot Oswald because Oswald was talking about Kennedy's connection to the Mob in the assassination attempts and the cops called Ruby to ask if this was so. Trying to pin it on Johnson was a strategy of Southern racists who hated the Civil Rights Acts. Lots of free lance conspiracy theories around who are bigots.
    Rebecca B - Always apply Occam's Razor to conspiracy theories. Also, assassinations world wide dropped after two of the Kennedys were killed (checked a world almanac that had info on such things).
    Hari - Your theory of Castro pulling off the assassination, as well as the coverup is science fiction..That the rogue elements in the CIA/ Mafia cabal, who felt double crossed" by Kennedy for the Bay of Pigs fiasco, as well as brother Bobby"s aggressive pur...See More
    Rebecca B to Hari - you've been brainwashed by Southern racists.
    Hari - LBJ was about to be indicted for his roll in the Billie Sol Estes affair, as well as other high crimes and misdemeanors when he went from the edge of the outhouse, to the penthouse.
    Rebecca B to Hari I think you're cute when you type into FB arguing with a Ph.D. in bio and a science fiction writer.
    Hari - Science fiction I'd about right


    Robert - That explains the phrase, "take 2 aspirin and consult your doctor" peppered throughout wikipedia
    Lisa V - And I thought we were just having a sweet little conversation about plants
    Rebecca B to Lisa V - basically, Nicaragua gets a self-proclaimed guru popping up in the groups about every two weeks. We have a tag team waiting.
    As for the plants, anything you find in Costa Rica will also be here. The Facebook group Gardening in Nicaragua is probably the most useful group for where to find trees and seeds of various things. The Goerings mentioned my earlier post are members.
    J Mac - That would make me the science fiction writer....where the heck is that royalty check, anyway??
    J Mac - Ok, sorry. Hari, you have every right to believe what you believe. I respect all creeds and religions and expect the same of others. You just should be aware that you aren't the first person to wander by with a pack of tarot cards or with a few eagle feathers stuck under their headband. We are all sick of snake oil pitches, whether by Elmer Gantry or Sexy Sadie. How was anyone to know about MMS, unless it is a Marxist rebel group, which might actually explain who killed the Kennedys, when after all, it was you and me.... (whistle, hum, tap feet) .... and just so you might know, I have participated in some academic studies of useful plants in Nicaragua, and I teach a course on the subject for a doctoral program. That does not mean I know everything about medicinal plants in almost any context, but it does mean I have a pretty good nose for credibility.
    Rebecca B to Hari - do you not check people's profiles? And do you have no sense of humor?
    Rebecca B to J Mac - some people use that third eye to read other people. Most of us aren't so gifted and check people's profiles or Wikipedia pages.
    Hari - Very stimulating dialog here. "We are all sick of snake oil salesmen here", I assume you to mean the folks on the boards of the big pharmaceutical companies which dot the fortune 500.
    J Mac - Here is another example of plant-based medicine discussed in Wikipedia: lemon grass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymbopogon). There are lots of properties, both demonstrated and not, mentioned on this page, with various levels of documentation. If Big Pharma wanted to suppress some of that information, it could be done relatively easy, because the quality of some of it does not really pass muster. The article is probably mostly correct, but not particularly well-documented. A well-meaning person such as yourself could do some vetting and strengthen the quality of the article, giving it more detail and providing the citations.
    Cymbopogon - Wikipedia
    Cymbopogon, better known as lemongrass (UK: /'l?m?n?gr??s/; US: /'l?m?n?græs/), is a genus of Asian,…
    EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
    Lisa V - Thanks Jeffrey. I just read the article. Very nice. In fact I have lemon grass growing in my yard that looks exactly like the photo! I use it along with ginger and some lime juice to make tea and then we refrigerate it and that is our everyday drink. It's very good. And this is what the locals use for medicinal tea when they have gripe (the flu).
    J Mac - I swear by it. When I lived in Cuba, there was some research conducted there on the medicinal aspects of that plant. I've performed extractions of the essential oils from it in chemistry labs I've taught at the university. It works as a natural soap scent, too.
    Lisa V - Cool, Jeff! One day when I have time I'd like to learn to make the essential oils from the plants I grow. One day...
    Rebecca B - There's an interesting webpage that shows current research on some of the herbal and alternative preparations: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/.../snake-oil.../
    Snake Oil Supplements — Information is Beautiful
    Do echinacea & Vitamin C kill colds? Will turmeric, goji… INFORMATIONISBEAUTIFUL.NET
    Steve - The "cardio" selection indicates coffee consumption fights heart disease and strokes, which is good news. Makes me wonder about how things work considering how common heart disease is, and yet how many people drink coffee. For me, I can generally tolerate one Starbucks 'tall' early in the morning. Not sure if that little amount has any preventative benefit... Sad because I love all coffee. Thanks for the info!
    Rebecca B to Steve - most of the coffee that people drink here is instant, also if you're eating absolute crap (salt, sugar, fried foods, white flour), then the coffee isn't probably enough to reverse the known negatives of that. I'm both drinking coffee and eliminating crap foods from my diet, and walking more after some problems last year. Lost something like 50 pounds so far.
    Lisa V - Good for you, Rebecca Brown! I think it's wonderful how people move to a different country, change their lifestyle and include a healthier way of eating in this. I know a number of people who have had good results. And thanks for the chart - interestin...See More
    Rebecca B to Lisa V - I spent most of six years here eating a typical Nicaraguan junk food diet. Nearly having a stroke and having high blood pressure that required medicine to control put the fear of fat, salt, sugar, and having bread in the house into me. Many people are placebo responders; I'm not. Double blind studies for the win.
    Lisa V - Yes, Rebecca. I've noticed this in Costa Rica, (where I live) and when visiting my husband's family in Nicaragua, as well. We went out to eat at a nice Caribbean restaurant the other day. It was filled with locals and they were ALL fat - huge bellies! ...
    Rebecca B to Lisa V - I give a "Karma Cola" award to you.
    Lisa V - Thanks... I guess :P


    Hari - In my travels through Nicaragua, talking to many old timers, I've discovered "moringa'. It is a fast growing tree whose leaves are nutritional, and the seeds have long been said to have medicinal properties. The old timers eat a few sees daily to combat aging. as well as for fertility. Research has shown it to be affective in treating diabetes, and other age related maladies.
    J Mac to Hari - you might be surprised how much you can learn from, as well as contribute to, Wikipedia. Some of what you have stated about this tree is already found there. You didn't have to come here to learn this, however. The name "moringa" derives from the Tamil language, and the tree is abundant and widely used in South Asia, where it is native. It was brought here in an iniciative to provide useful plants for humans and cattle during the 1980's. Unfortunately, little use is made of the tree here, still, beyond providing shade along fencerows and forage for cattle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moringa_oleifera
    Moringa oleifera - Wikipedia
    in northwestern India, and widely cultivated in tropical and subtropical areas where its young…
    EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
    Lisa V - I think I've heard my husband (a Nicaragua native) mention this plant. I'll have to ask him. He learned about many medicinal plants growing up. His mother takes some concoctions every day for her ailing health.
    J Mac - It's also all over Costa Rica, but easy to see along the roads *(both)* to Leon.
    Lisa V - Yes, I've probably heard of it here, too. There are so many! I can't keep track. So I start with the ones I can use and learn how to make them and what they can do for me. I'm eating Guanabana to ward off skin cancer. I have been making Noni juice for years. I want to learn to make carao because I have noticed how much more energy it gives me. And my next thing is to learn to cook Jackfruit. I imagine they have Jackfruit in Nicaragua.
    J Mac - no. sorry
    Last edited by Daddy-YO; 06-30-2017 at 10:23 AM. Reason: formatting
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

  2. #2

    Default Re: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    " . .... I don't visit FB often - too tutti fruiti. Besides, my wife de-friended me. But since my daughters stopped writing emails . . . Here's a bit I caught that features our MizBrown, bard of Jinotega (Rebecca B), so you know it'll entertain, and hopefully, inform:

    We all need some purpose in life.
    This post is giving credibility to the " come to Nicaragua and chase young girls . ." idea.
    Makes more sense to me than noni juice and lemon grass tea,, but,, different strokes for different folks.
    I'm a very tolerant person

    I'm back in Tucson until December,, the bounty of life here is astonishing.
    Books. Two days from Amazon,, anything I want. Brand new Dockers at Goodwill for $4.99. New hardbacks for $2.99, paperbacks for 99 cents.
    NEW underwear and socks. I could never find underwear and socks I liked in Nicaragua.

    Chocolate covered raisins,, almonds,, peanuts, both milk and dark, in bulk,, on special for $2.99 /pound. Nuts, better looking pineapples than Nicaragua,, and cheaper than Nicaragua,, apples, peaches, nectarines, grapes, cherries for $1.98/lb,, just about everything cheaper than Nicaragua.

    We picked up a house close to downtown, from a nurse who spends summers working in Alaska.
    This will probably be a repetitive arrangement which will ease the burden, aggravation, and expense of finding a place every year.
    We plan on doing this for five years.Life is good,, but I truly miss Nicaragua. It grows on you. I miss tramping about the farm every morning.
    I miss Sebastian. Ariana is here, doing well, and we are working on a photo album project. I'm looking for somewhere I could volunteer to teach English,,, just to have an opportunity to speak Spanish.

  3. #3
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    Jeez Louise. My wife is getting all excited about the house she wants to build on the outskirts of Esteli on a lot her other aunt is selling us which we don't yet have the money for, while the Mountain Retreat will require some unexpected legal legwork before we can use the land.

    In the mean time, my thoughts are, "This is a major investment, how can I make it worthwhile to me?" And I'm not getting any answers. My feeble mind doesn't think that way, anyway. But I can't think of a single endeavor I could undertake in Esteli that would earn us a living. My wife wants to start a bakery, so I hope that takes off.

    My only hope is to wait till I can collect my meager social security if it still exists by then, and whatever few pennies of retirement funds there are. I'll probably be 80 by then and will need a 4x4 wheelchair to get around. Naw, the road will be paved by then. Right? Right around the time they break ground on the Grand Canal...

  4. #4

    Default Re: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Jeez Louise. My wife is getting all excited about the house she wants to build on the outskirts of Esteli on a lot her other aunt is selling us which we don't yet have the money for, while the Mountain Retreat will require some unexpected legal legwork before we can use the land.

    In the mean time, my thoughts are, "This is a major investment, how can I make it worthwhile to me?" And I'm not getting any answers. My feeble mind doesn't think that way, anyway. But I can't think of a single endeavor I could undertake in Esteli that would earn us a living. My wife wants to start a bakery, so I hope that takes off.

    My only hope is to wait till I can collect my meager social security if it still exists by then, and whatever few pennies of retirement funds there are. I'll probably be 80 by then and will need a 4x4 wheelchair to get around. Naw, the road will be paved by then. Right? Right around the time they break ground on the Grand Canal...


    Everybody else in the world is building a house in Estelí at the moment.
    Why not your wife??

    I can't believe the way that town is booming.

  5. #5

    Default Re: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    We road out the great recession of 2007. It was just starting to affect things and then came the Chavez Economic Boom with unbelievable growth for about the past 8 years. Not a doomsdayer, but I am really afraid what happens when a recession hits Esteli, and the world is 1 year overdue for a recession! I lived in towns in the Mohave where the economy was dependent on construction and at the first sign of a slowdown everything went to crap quickly. a lot of empty store space there all these years later.
    Restaurants and things are grossly overbuilt and a recession will wipe out half, not to mention all the hardware stores. Who will survive, the big boys or the mom and pops who eat gallo pinto and live upstairs?
    And who is going to feed the army of thieves and druggies in a recession?

    My thots, if I had money to invest and thought Esteli was a good place, would be to hold onto my cash and pick up the bargains when everybody else is selling.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    Leon too and nearby shore points seem to be undergoing an inflationary bubble. I blame it on the flood of foreigners seeking the cheap, good & safe in this, the mañana land of eternal sunshine and seasonal street-cleansing downpours. I just pray the place doesn't become fully Californicated, like San Juan del Sur.
    I never met a Semite I didn't like.

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    If the timing is right, when it's house-building time labor will be begging for work, and there will be materials the ferreterias can't get rid of.

    Yeah, right; when has that ever happened to me.

  8. #8

    Default Re: medicinal fruits & herbs and JFK

    My priority this year is security, so we went for the wall instead of a second bathroom/laundry room, We are on week 10 and in retrospect the wall has more masonry work in it than the house. We hiccuped and had a run in with a bad welder, but are back on track. We had planned on a good vacation as a reward, but until we get the new porton and puerta we are still on house arrest.Niece and hubby are willing to house sit for us when we leave as her house is undergoing a complete rehab.

    The relatives have a lot across the street that probably will not be built on for years, we I played habeous grabus and planted some bananas and a papaya on it yesterday. Lemon grass might be an idea, and some quequiste because it is theft-resistant.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ​Poster/bumper sticker from the 1970s

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