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Thread: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

  1. #26

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Deleted Hydroxychloroquine Video:



    https://www.foxnews.com/science/controversial-hydroxychloroquine-research-under-scrutiny-experts-raise-serious-scientific-questions


    If Trump is proved right on this,, how many people died unnecessarily ?

    That could have been treated early on.

    A friend in Nicaragua described a funeral home going door to door, soliciting business.

    The Pandemic has been very good to many people.

  2. #27
    House SOB Little Corn Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Yeah....Good for the government.......kills the old ones who are on the government dole.
    Life's different here ... It's a whole 'nother pace.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    Frosty - an appropriate qualifier for Canadians .

    Bill, help us understand Canada in this global medical/political debate.
    Are Canadian doctors directly prohibited from prescribing or using this drug on their Covid-19 patients? I'm asking about laws, Bill. Can a Canadian doctor lose her/his license for giving this to one of her/his Covid-19 patients?
    The discussion is quite muted up here

    1) Most people trust the opinions of their physicians and not really in their face on how they need to be treated. Some of this (Opinion) is that health care is a delivered service, not a (directly) purchased item. Yes we buy it (on the tune of about 4.5 to 5K /yr) , but it is not a "in your face expense every month by invoice that you would expect a return on"

    2) Our case load is very small (last I read varying numbers here and there, but something akin to 1/8th the US) so demands for a chemical solution where social distancing and masks _seem_ to work and are generally accepted.

    Now to the question.. The technical stance of the CMA is this.. (Apr 27)

    (Note: The CMA is the Canadian Medical Association, they set standards for treatment, policies and procedures that are percolated up to the g'ment on what is a covered treatment. It is composed of all practicing and researching physicians and surgeons in Canada )

    * Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are generally well tolerated, but clinicians and patients should be aware of serious adverse events that can occur, even during short courses of treatment.

    * Potential risks of treatment include prolongation of the QTc interval (especially in patients with preexisting cardiac disease or if coprescribed with azithromycin), hypoglycemia, neuropsychiatric effects, drug–drug interactions and idiosyncratic hypersensitivity reactions.

    * Genetic variability in metabolism of these drugs is considerable and influences their safety and effectiveness.

    * Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are extremely toxic in overdose.

    * As we await stronger evidence on the role, if any, of these drugs in the treatment or prevention of coronavirus disease 2019, uncommon but serious harms of treatment can be mitigated by careful patient selection and monitoring.

    The full text is HERE

    So in general a Dr. can prescribe it, but it goes against the CMA's best practices so they are unlikely to do so unless they are rogue - If they are rogue they typically run the US anyways so really no issue.

    I am not a Dr, nor play one on TV, but it looks like the concern is for side effects of hydroxychloroquine. Will they loose their licence if they prescribe it? Probably not, but if they do and there is a side-effect, they would be liable and that is why they would resist prescribing.

    Canadian (Well Ontario) model is $35 for your basic 10 min "Hi how are ya - Tell me your aches and pains" visit - No Dr is going to play the self medicate game with a patient for $35 visit.
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  4. #29
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    OK, it's NOT illegal in Canada, but Canadians prefer not to medicate and instead maintain distance from others and diligently mask-up. Canadians do right.

    When all's done and summed up, we'll see the stats of who did what.
    Early, in March, https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...897524025.html
    By April, https://nationalpost.com/health/cana...octors-own-use

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that someone out there does not want this pandemic stopped,, for whatever reason.


    Poor guy is going to be canceled,, lose his job, and BLM will burn his house to the ground.

    Impressive,, unequivocal statement. Worth re-linking. How many lives could have been saved ?

    https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeati...pinion-1519535
    All those who died of other causes but were listed as Covid deaths wouldn't be saved. Maybe that's why they don't want Chloroquine around.

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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Sounds like the adverse effects aren't particularly unique. Many pharma products have worse adverse effects.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Sounds like the adverse effects aren't particularly unique. Many pharma products have worse adverse effects.


    A lot of people have been taking hydroxy, around the world, >>> and other than that fish tank couple in Arizona, I'm not hearing of the devastating side effects that CNN is warning about.

    You are always going to have the "More Power" guy who decides that a larger dose has to be better. You get that once in a while with antibiotics. Did I mention the fish tank couple ?

    We're finding out that drug studies can be manipulated to achieve desired outcomes. Withhold the hydroxy until the patient is at death's door and you will have a vastly different outcome than if it's administered as soon as the symptoms present themselves.

    Tamiflu is worthless too,, if it's not taken early on.
    Taken early, it reduces the viral load and blunts the worst of the flu.


    NOT the first time a pandemic has been politicized: the Church in Europe became wealthy because of the Black Plague. "Leave us your goods and avoid purgatory". Heretics were sought out and burned at the stake.

    Always someone out there looking for free Nike sneakers,, and someone else explaining why he shouldn't have to work for them like every one else.

    I remain a "get a haircut and get a real job" kind of guy.

  8. #33
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Last night I read a Canadian study joint with U Minn where they mega dosed half the subjects: 4 X 200mg hydroxy-Cl-Q on first day of being exposed to coronavirus and then 3 X 200mg on the second day. The other half got a placebo, double-blind. Nobody got sick. A few later tested positive for Cov-19 in both groups; none needed hospitalization. Conclusion: zilch. Buried in the 2020 paper: subjects' ave. age = 40. Science?

    I see where Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert, 66, tested positive. He'll take hydroxy-Cl-Q -- because he's a Republican? a believer? Because he & his doctor agreed it's best. Today's WaPo adds:
    hydroxychloroquine, the antimalarial drug pushed by President Trump and his allies despite warnings from the Food and Drug Administration and medical experts that it isn’t effective as a coronavirus treatment and could carry significant health risks.
    Horrors!

    Madonna posted the same video of doctors touting hydroxy-Cl-Q that got Trump Jr. temporarily evicted from Twitter. Hers got taken down. She called one of the doctors her hero. WaPo dismissed her as a nutcase.

    I need a haircut, but I'm feeling Bannon-ish lately.

  9. #34
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    WaPo dismissed her as a nutcase.
    They got something right, at least.

  10. #35
    Active TRN Member RGV AG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Sounds like the adverse effects aren't particularly unique. Many pharma products have worse adverse effects.
    No shit, that is the gospel truth. You see some of these TV adds and they have a 30 second ending that goes like this "Please note that XXX can and will cause your penis to turn purple and fall off in some cases, occasional butt hole flutters may develop in certain users. Possible side effects also include permanent rancid body odor, loss of vision, and constant urination as well as uncontrollable flatulence and goiters in some users. Please do not drink milk, coffee, water, or any alcohol when taking XXX and consult your physician if you decide to take XXX during day light hours." I mean really? When I have seen some of these meds advertised, I am like "Whoa, I will take the illness all day and twice on Sunday".

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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    What is even more perplexing is the "tell your Dr if you have blah blah blah"

    If you Dr does not know if you have those associated ailments..... why is she/he your Dr?

    The only medication ads up here are for that foot nail fungus stuff, nothing else.
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  12. #37

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by RGV AG View Post
    No shit, that is the gospel truth. You see some of these TV adds and they have a 30 second ending that goes like this "Please note that XXX can and will cause your penis to turn purple and fall off in some cases, occasional butt hole flutters may develop in certain users. Possible side effects also include permanent rancid body odor, loss of vision, and constant urination as well as uncontrollable flatulence and goiters in some users. Please do not drink milk, coffee, water, or any alcohol when taking XXX and consult your physician if you decide to take XXX during day light hours." I mean really? When I have seen some of these meds advertised, I am like "Whoa, I will take the illness all day and twice on Sunday".



    Most of that is just CYA,, more important than efficacy in the US. If they list a symptom,, they hope you won't sue, and if you do,, they tell the jury,,,, "Well, we warned him that might happen".

    What's truly amazing is how they can put a dollar value on everything,, loss of vision is worth more than chronic flatulence, and they have it figured to the nickel.

    Remember those insurance policies they used to sell,, lost an arm, $one amount,, two arms $$,, now it seems that you have to die to get anything.

  13. #38
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    I keep telling my Nica relatives that every medicine is a poison, take it with extreme caution. I have had bad reactions to a couple meds, once here, and to a "flu" shot in the US. Look up every med online before buying and be wary of shoot from the hip HMO or clinica doctors.
    Nic doctors are particularly bad about side effects and drug interactions. They are like US doctors of 50 years ago.

    That being said, my doctor here is an Adventist and leans toward minimal medications and natural remedies.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


  14. #39

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Another friend infected,, in Condega. Headache and intense muscle pain. Her mother has it too,, so kids undoubtedly were infected as well,, although not showing symptoms.

    She says, "I'm feeling better, " but most people report a washout of a week. No energy, malaise.

    Still,, better than the alternative.

    She is late 30's.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    Another friend infected,, in Condega. Headache and intense muscle pain. Her mother has it too,, so kids undoubtedly were infected as well,, although not showing symptoms.

    She says, "I'm feeling better, " but most people report a washout of a week. No energy, malaise.

    Still,, better than the alternative.

    She is late 30's.
    Has she been tested and given a confirmed diagnosis of Covid?

    I ask, because if having a headache and muscle pain are symptoms, them I've had Covid in Nicaragua like a dozen times already. Of course, I assumed that I got some combination of heat exhaustion and a tropical bug, but that was before Covid's coup--where it became the master of all diseases.
    Soy el chele mono.

  16. #41

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by drlemcor View Post
    Has she been tested and given a confirmed diagnosis of Covid?

    I ask, because if having a headache and muscle pain are symptoms, them I've had Covid in Nicaragua like a dozen times already. Of course, I assumed that I got some combination of heat exhaustion and a tropical bug, but that was before Covid's coup--where it became the master of all diseases.


    Good point,, plenty of heat and bugs,, I've been there. But now her husband has it. And her mother is showing symptoms. Bismark is getting hit harder,, Belkis has mostly recovered,, just really tired. You know them,, they own the hardware store in Condega that I patronize.

    There has NOT been much about deaths in La Prensa recently, or Havana Times,, and the Citizen's Observatory number did not surge, as one might expect.

    Rafla's hardware business has stayed strong,, with a lot of Construction of houses in Condega.

    Did Ortega make the right decision ? He's avoided the disruption that we have suffered in the US.

  17. #42
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    It seems Bannon & crew are ready to throw down in open confrontation with the medical establishment over HCQ. There’ll be a town-hall on HCQ use 10am ET Sat at https://pandemic.warroom.org/listen-live/ with leading medical experts from around the country. Dr. Zelenko, who championed HCQ+zinc (+azithromycin) in Jan, had great success with it in one NY community, and wrote an open letter to Trump (I posted it here) about the results, said on Bannon’s show, “there’ 150,000 dead corpses, most of which could have been avoided if Dr. Fauci did the moral and correct thing,” instead of having the FDA prohibit HCQ’s use on covid patients.
    https://thenationalpulse.com/news/le...oroquine-memo/

    Major media is again trying to kill the idea that HCQ has any merit at all. CNN hosted a one-sided debate of HCQ with Dr. Risch against their panel. (Remember the piece in Newsweek by Yale epidemiologist Harvey A. Risch,
    https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeati...pinion-1519535 )
    The NYTimes had a big article recently on “Covid Drug Wars: Doctor vs. Doctor” in which HCQ was buried and forcefully dismissed - “the evidence that it worked remained slim and reports were emerging that in some patients it was causing heart problems.” In the end it ridiculed Dr. Spyropoulos for saying that his wife survived covid because of HCQ, calling it statistically unlikely, akin to witchcraft-thinking.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Trump is in a pickle. He can't investigate, purge , or disband CDC & friends because they have copies of all the memos they sent him in Jan-Mar. Would not be good news right before the elections, so he has to continue playing piddle-fart with Fauci. With 1000 a day dying. Covid will vote in November and nobody wants to be on the wrong side of that vote.

    The US is pretty much the laughing stock of the world right now. From superpower to banana republic in 6 months. Google 5th generation war.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


  19. #44
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    The case for using HCQ as a prophylaxis/preventative podcast - listen here: https://pandemic.warroom.org/2020/08...r-li-meng-yan/ At one point Dr. Zelenko explains how anyone who wants to use HCQ may get a doc's prescription and have it shipped to them anywhere in the USA within 24hr.

    Not emphasized enough in the town hall podcast, IMO, is the necessity to also take zinc when symptoms first appear or beforehand. HCQ or CQ unlocks the virus, the zinc denatures ('kills') it. Should symptoms worsen, azithromycin, which is also antiviral, may be needed.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Dr. Harvey Risch, Yale epidemiologist, being attack on all sides, defends himself:
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...e-is-dangerous
    "Dr. Anthony Fauci has implied that I am incompetent..." "A group of my Yale colleagues has publicly intimated that I am a zealot who is perpetrating a dangerous hoax and conspiracy theory."
    Reminds me of the Papal Inquisitions of 1600s when Bruno got burned at the stake and Galileo put under 'house arrest' for measuring the 'heavens' and daring to speak truth. OK, we're a tad more 'civilized', but holy PC police abound. Yet our hero perseveres to defend his science to all comers. Beware heretic!

    There are two main stages to Covid-19 (at least). First, early infection with the coronavirus. People who are high risk -
    over 60 &/or have one or more chronic conditions - when treated early with HCQ+Zn (+azithro) in the first stage, as out-patients, when symptoms first appear, even before test results are back, show >95% chance of recovery. Low risk people - under 60 with no chronic conditions - don't need to be treated, they can cope, says Dr. Risch.

    In the second stage, when the immune system is overwhelmed, and through 'cytokine storms' the body begins to destroy itself, patients are in hospitals, IC wards, &/or on ventilators , . . . for them, HCQ + Zn does NOT work on Covid-19. Antibiotics, anti-inflammatory meds, steroids. &c. may help ...

    Safety of HCQ on high risk patients? "
    In fact, the FDA has no information about adverse events in early outpatient use of hydroxychloroquine." In his Am.J.Epidem. article he showed HCQ to be "extremely safe in more than a million users."

    "It is a serious and unconscionable mistake that the FDA has used inpatient data to block emergency use petitions for outpatient use." -
    Dr. Harvey Risch

  21. #46

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...e__143978.html


    We will never know how many cases could have been alleviated, and prevented from advancing to a later stage, if the hydroxy had been made available early on.


    It’s unclear if it was this research that prompted Walz to reverse his March ruling, which ordered the Board of Pharmacists to instruct pharmacists to not issue hydroxychloroquine prescriptions unless the diagnosis was “appropriate” -- which halted any off-label prescription requests.


    I really don't have a problem if the Blue Koolaid drinkers want to die on their swords.
    But,, why should everyone else suffer ?

  22. #47
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    It still baffles us on how simple measures, enacted quickly, as soon they were "figured out" (from Italy and Spain being unfortunate guinea pigs) as the Germans, the Danes, Taiwan and others told us what to do.

    Societies locked down and shut down and on the most part it is contained although the 2nd wave is starting in NZ and a little on our West Coast so it will come back, but hopefully in a wack a mole sort of way.


    Yelling at politicians who know less that shit about public health, or screaming that a magic drug to cure the consequences of not following that simple advise is so baffling the we can not wrap our minds around it (Us being Canadians I know, Kiwis', Aussies, People from the Netherlands and Germany)

    Just hunker down for a quarter and deal with it.

    We almost clocked up to 14% unemployment which is whittling back to 10.9 for July and word on the street is August weekly numbers are much better as well.. .

    Graph below
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by bill_bly_ca; 08-18-2020 at 08:18 PM.
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  23. #48
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    I really don't have a problem if the Blue Koolaid drinkers want to die on their swords. But why should everyone else suffer?
    Indeed. IMO, it's simple fascism - of the three stooges variety. And the USA doesn't have a universal health care system, yet we were told universally HCQ was bad shit.

    At least we know that the fascist FDA/NIH/AMA/Big-Pharma do not have totalitarian control. Drugs get through. Anyone who wants to use HCQ may get a doc's prescription and have it shipped to them (last week,#44). This is a survival test for people at high risk - over 60 &/or have a chronic condition. You know who you are. Practice this proven prophylaxis or cower in a corner til someone yells "vaccine". Masks are no preventative, they only delay inevitable infection.

    There's more. Dr. Zelenko speculated that HCQ(or CQ) + Zn will effectively ward off seasonal flu (all coronaviruses) in general, once we have escaped this collective insanity.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    "Trump misleadingly claimed that “many doctors and studies disagree” with the FDA’s decision to revoke an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine for treating covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. The FDA said in June that the drug was ineffective and that potential benefits were outweighed by safety risks. Other research by the federal government and private institutions has found that hydroxychloroquine performs no better than a placebo in virus patients."
    - from today's Washington Post

    Two days ago in the NYTimes under the heading "An ‘Unprecedented’ Effort to Stop the Coronavirus in Nursing Homes" a study is being conducted in nursing homes using a monoclonal antibody, "cloned from those found in the blood of a Seattle man, one of the first patients to survive Covid-19,..." It is called "one of the great hopes in the war on the coronavirus," despite, or maybe because of, being difficult to manufacture and expensive. Once someone in the nursing home is determined to be infected, Eli Lily randomly assigns subjects there to receive one of two infusions: a placebo, or the monoclonal antibody. Such is the state of FDA guided commercial science during this pandemic that's killed 179,613 Americans, mostly the elderly.

  25. #50

    Default Re: Well,, Well,, Well . . . . Hydroxychloroquine

    Johnson and Johnson announced a 60K trial of their vaccine starting in September.
    Study will be conducted at 180 sites in the US and also in Brazil and Mexico.

    In the meantime Russia has rolled out a second vaccine:
    ‘EpiVacCorona’, Second Russian Vaccine Shows Promising Results



    We're getting closer . . . . . .
    A suggested incentive to encouraging vaccination acceptance: Show your Vaccine Card and you don't have to wear a mask, or social distance. Lines would form around the block.

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