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Thread: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Here is the issue about what you said.

    “There is nothing special about covid-19 compared to many other viruses that we've seen in recent years.”

    This is a remarkably ignorant statement.

  2. #52
    Active TRN Member RGV AG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Corn Tom View Post
    Just to make sure that I understand.....Shelley is claiming that she got the virus from your farts?
    Man, if this is true Mexico is for an epidemic of mega Biblical proportions.

  3. #53
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Covid is a unique disease that makes its treatment very difficult. Catchy enough to overload hospitals and wipe out nursing homes, slow enough to not present an immediate response by the general public. Slow enough that herd immunity does not appear possible. Not infecting children is a blessing, but at the same time it helps lull the population. If we had 50k kids dead, people would take the pandemic more seriously. Contagion by non-symptomatic people is a real curse, hence the bogus "why quarantine the healthy " argument.

    Incompetence by the US government made it much worse than it needed to be, again by looking at the relative success of a handful of countries. Shutdowns were not made because they are the best way to treat a pandemi, they are a short term necessity when the government blows the first 3 months and lets it get out of control.

    TES (Trump Euphoria Syndrome) and TDS don't help and I suspect that elements of the deep state sabotaged the public health services and suckered Trump.

    Nicaragua gets by by negligence and control of the media. Long term Nic. is likely to be another Haiti.

    In reality, the Trump economic bubble was going to burst just after the elections, the black terror in America's great cities has been simmering for 50 years, 20% of American jobs were going to be automated out of existence within the next 2 decades, China has steadily been growing in wealth and power, and academia's hatred of America was long standing. The mishandling of the pandemia just moved everything forward.

    Incidentally, the Peak Prosperity dude has a tape out on T cell immunity, which might offer some long term help since regular immunity seems to be weak for covid. And the scientific studies from Asia are on surgical masks, not the cloth masks being pimped by Fauci and Trump, apparently because lying to the public has become the fall-back option.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


  4. #54
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Hospitals were not overloaded, though. There is ample evidence that hospitals were quite underwhelmed by Corona patients. And even counting the admittedly overinflated number of positive tests, it’s 1-2% of the population. Not what I’d call “pervasive.” Then there’s the directives that Corona be named as cause of death even if a patient died of other obvious causes.

  5. #55
    Active TRN Member RGV AG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    To demonstrate how off the rails jacked up this whole deal is, yesterday afternoon/evening the US, and especially Texas, was a abuzz with the horrible news that 85 newborns had tested positive for the virus. Panic was starting to bubble up. This came out of Nueces County, Texas, whose main city is Corpus Christi. About 120 miles up the road from me. About 8 hours later a correction/redaction/clarification was emitted. Turns out 85 total babies had tested positive since March, and in varying circumstances, and none have died.

    Monday morning QB'ing and hindsight are always crystal clear. In the country that we live in, it is being labeled as a major hotspot and the country is about a half step from locking itself down, totally, again. I posted the below on another board that I frequent after looking at the death tolls.

    From todays McAllen monitor, there are 48 death notices, very high. Some stats about those deaths:

    • Average age: 68.74 years old
    • Percent of deaths under 50 years old 22%


    The average life expectancy is 78 years old, the RGV tends to run under that due to the local health issues. I have heard it is about 4 years less in odd conversations.

    So for a day, when all kinds of politicos and citizens panicked, the average death age was 6 years less than what is typically seen. There is no comfort in any death, and bless those souls that perished and their families, my heart goes out to them. There is nothing easy or good about this. But logically what we are seeing is that like many diseases the primary victims are older and sicker. My goodness, as terrible as that may be, it is the way of the world in all species.

    I don't believe for a moment that the "lock down" in March and April prevented this type of outbreak, what I believe is that the virus was not as present in the local area and that many that were sick toughed it out a home and or didn't know that they had it.

    This country is going to feed upon itself and then not be able to dig out from the financial ruin.
    This Kung Flu sickness/tragedy/pandemic, whatever it may be called, is a dire and serious tragedy. It is terrible and I have nothing but the deepest condolences and sorrow for those who perish. But it is not something atypical for mankind to see and or experience. And its most affected group is not something that mankind hasn't seen before and wont see again.

    The focus on facing this has to be twofold with equal importance; 1. Protecting the most venerable while 2. Not allows society to destroy itself. Right now that is not happening in the America's.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGV AG View Post
    Man, if this is true Mexico is for an epidemic of mega Biblical proportions.


    No more beans!
    Mexico would never survive!

    I eat quite a few beans,, in various iterations. I'm an Iowa farm boy, so I guess it runs in the blood.

    We ate a lot of corn too, I remember my older family members burning through ten ears, slathered in fresh butter, and SALT,, the ears picked that afternoon from a garden that was the size of many Nicaraguan freeholds. Of course, they burned the calories off. All I do now is sit around posting on TRN.

    We did NOT have pigs,, though. I don't know why not,, and there is no one left to ask .

    Yesterday was Krisnia's birthday.
    At least some things remain constant:

    La vida siga.
    Crops grow. Babies are born. House rentals in Nicaragua remain reasonable, that is the house we are renting for $150 in Estelí. It's on a quiet, tree lined street a short walk from the Parque Central

    We will survive this.
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  7. #57

    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Hospitals were not overloaded, though. There is ample evidence that hospitals were quite underwhelmed by Corona patients. And even counting the admittedly overinflated number of positive tests, it’s 1-2% of the population. Not what I’d call “pervasive.” Then there’s the directives that Corona be named as cause of death even if a patient died of other obvious causes.


    Originally, the hospitals didn't want you unless you were really sick. Remember, they were telling you to go to an urgent care. People who survived nicely at home with a few days of flu like symptoms are now being hospitalized for a few days.
    The hospitals need the money badly. COVID pays well,, but there are just not that many ICU beds to carry the weight.

    Shelley has had a couple of calls from hospitals looking for OR nurses. They all want to re-initiate their elective surgeries. That was there bread and butter, and the source of many doctor's huge incomes.

    St Josephs in Tucson has 20 OR "suites" dedicated to elective surgery.

  8. #58
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    Shelley has had a couple of calls from hospitals looking for OR nurses. They all want to re-initiate their elective surgeries. That was there bread and butter, and the source of many doctor's huge incomes.
    Our electives opened 3 weeks ago - Friend from the radio had his knee replaced (On the list for 6 months then placed on hold from Mar 20 to June 10 - His was done like June 15th. Another lady at our camp had an inch of bone pulled out from her left knee last week of June. Since she is only 52 she is too young for replacement by 5 years she states.
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  9. #59
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Hospitals were not overloaded, though. There is ample evidence that hospitals were quite underwhelmed by Corona patients.
    Here we got to 90% loading of ICUs in March with 1 in 4 being Covid positive. Story on the news Friday night of one of the first Intubated patients at Humberview (Toronto) released after 12 weeks many of them on a ventilator - 73 yrs old to boot.
    He was one of longest recoveries recorded.

    We actually had Triage outside of the hospitals and the infected never actually seen the inside of the "Non-Covid" wing of the hospital. EMS has had a protocol up here called FREI protocol (Febrile Respiratory & Enteric Illness) The dispatcher asks a series of questions with the 911 call depending on the response PPE and other containment protocols are used. It spans all EMS systems in the province.

    They have similar protocals for Stroke and heart attack as well, and as with all 3 there are dedicated hospitals and entrance points for these protocols
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  10. #60
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    If what media reporting last few days is true, herd immunity is a pipe dream. Antibodies might last 8 months, mederna saying their vaccine may be good for a year. Think heard 1 million vaccinated in States yesterday, going take a long, long time for all those that want it to get it. Antibodies wearing thin on those that had early on, more people than ever hospitalized. This thing ain't blowing over.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

  11. #61
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herd Immunity at What Cost ?

    Even China has covid! They just don't report the deaths.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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