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Thread: Vaccines and herd immunity

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Vaccines and herd immunity

    Vaccines will work and lead us to herd immunity. (“the only safe way to achieve herd immunity is through vaccination”) Here’s an excellent mini-lesson on the immune system that teaches that:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/o...-immunity.html
    The "finding that naturally occurring antibodies in some Covid-19 patients are fading doesn’t actually mean very much for the likely efficacy of vaccines under development. Science, in this case, can be more effective than nature." Read why.

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    There is something called t cell immunity in addition regular immunity. Time will tell what works, if anything.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    CR going for covid insurance for Tourists. Somehow I think tourism is not going to rebound worldwide for 4-5 years.

    https://ticotimes.net/2020/07/31/cos...s-for-tourists

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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    House SOB Little Corn Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    I agree....when you think about the change in airline travel due to the WTC attacks in NYC and the huge bureaucracy that was established and now an even worse event is bound to embolden even more bureaucracy and rules and permits and documentation and tests and ........

    It is a sad time indeed when your future is denied.
    Life's different here ... It's a whole 'nother pace.

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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    CR going for covid insurance for Tourists. Somehow I think tourism is not going to rebound worldwide for 4-5 years.

    https://ticotimes.net/2020/07/31/cos...s-for-tourists


    If the vaccine becomes readily available, then proof of the inoculation might be all that is necessary,, like for yellow fever.

    Hard to say about rebound. It will depend on whether Trump is re-elected. We sat on 4 trillion of cash during Obama,, no one would invest because they assumed (rightfully) that their returns would be confiscated in the name of social justice. It will be worse under Biden. He owes a lot more people than Obama did.

    We can keep printing money up to the point where no one will accept it. I suspect that we are still a long away from that point.

    The dollar will still trade in the US,, as Confederate currency circulated in the south, but if you want a German car, or some French wine,, or something from China,,, forget it

    On the rebound,, the problem with the Dem investment will be the social justice aspect of it.

    We enjoy a unique position with our dollar. Nicaragua could never do something like we've done with their currency. Like most of the world,, they have to buy or earn dollars to get the things they want, and don't produce. In the case of Nicaragua, that is pretty much everything but beans, rice and corn. And Flor de Caña. And puros. And coffee. The fingers of two hands.

    Even their machetes come from El Salvador.

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    CR going for covid insurance for Tourists.
    https://ticotimes.net/2020/07/31/cos...s-for-tourists
    That sucks. No more border runs to re-up my visa for another 90 d. It's Panama or Mexico or Miami/Ft.Lauderdale. May as well fly home to Philly on a bare-bones Spirit hop.
    Tico Times: Only a policy purchased through the CR’s National Insurance Institute (INS) would qualify. For a 30-year-old’s two-week CR vacation it’d cost about $280 — which only increases for older adults, lengthier stays, or multi-person trips. When Costa Rica opens its airports to foreigners on August 2, all tourists must present proof of a negative PCR-RT coronavirus test from a sample taken within 48 hours of their flight and submit an “epidemiological form”.
    Hell, the best turn-around on PCR-RT coronavirus tests in the States is 4 days.

    CR may as well post signs on its borders: only millionaire Chinese tourists welcome.

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    The 72hr Nica is requiring might be doable, 48hrs would be tough, my understanding from what I have read is that the airline must present the info in it's manifest. Have seen a place in Miami mentioned that has same day results, think is $150, must be places in Mexico dong same as some Gringos have chartered jets into MGA from Mex City and Cancun. My guess is that like the onward ticket rule, if you are not allowed into a Country then the airline is responsible for taking you back where you came from.

    Avianca Charters from MIA to MGA have started and the flights have dropped around $100, still close to $800 for one way ticket in either direction, Jet charter seats seem to range in $1,000-$1,400 and have been available in each direction. Is a charter scheduled from Madrid to MGA (tons of Nicas fled to Spain in 2018), not seen any from elsewhere.

    Were people chartering small planes from the airport in Tola to San Jose which still has a few flights a week to States (Houston on United, I think), now see some doing it from MGA.

    Guess there is a LOT of misunderstanding and questions about the new rules in Costa Rica, and they have flights starting tomorrow night.

    With way things are here in States now (and looks like foreseeable future) I cannot imagine any Country letting in Gringos without a test, and maybe like Costa Rica, some form of insurance.

    Ortega will turn this sow's ear into a silk purse, can use virus threat to pick and choose who gets in (and out) as the elections loom on the horizon and the repression increases.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    That sucks. No more border runs to re-up my visa for another 90 d. It's Panama or Mexico or Miami/Ft.Lauderdale. May as well fly home to Philly on a bare-bones Spirit hop.
    Hell, the best turn-around on PCR-RT coronavirus tests in the States is 4 days.

    CR may as well post signs on its borders: only millionaire Chinese tourists welcome.



    CR WAS automatically extending visas and car permits,,, I believe the latest extension is through September. We have a Migración office in Estelí. Nasty people.

    The vaccine gets closer. If it gets here before January 2021, you might get a shot.

    https://atmtee.com/products/veterans...31492096196702

    I stumbled across this non PC T-shirt vendor. I bought three to my liking. I emailed them with another suggestion:

    I don't know which annoys me more

    Wearing a Mask

    or

    Black Lives Matter

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Last I read CR has extended tourists visas into November.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    And I read this weekend that CR will reopen to Canadian and EU visitors in the next week or so.
    ==================================================
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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Just saw on a CR FB page, 2 weeks insurance for a 53 yr old, is $600. Is confusion as to if you can provide your own insurance or must buy from them.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    There will be few Canadians as we still require 2 week self isolate upon return - I have been told (but have not looked it up yet) that the EU does not have a stipulation for a self isolate rule any longer.

    Our first no death day (for the province, 14M) was last week and our Region (K-W, about 600,000) had zero new cases Friday.
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    Active TRN Member RGV AG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    You can for sure get a piece of paper saying that you tested negative in Mexico, for the right price, but an actual test in 72 hours? Nope, not unless you are very well connected with some very good connections. Mexican testing is the definition of trainwrecked, it is part of the mess they are in.

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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    La Prensa had an article about a Russian vaccine rolling out on Aug 17. Even if they start inoculating people by end of August it will put enormous pressure on the US.

    We've poured billions into vaccine development, in several countries, and the Ruskies beat us again ??


    Interestingly,, the announcement came from Russia's Sputnik news agency. A nice touch.

    So,,, the people who stayed in Nicaragua get a vaccination first ?

    Six million is a small number of doses,, actually 3 million would do it nicely. Nicaragua raises their middle finger to the Ticos,, opens the country, and all the tourists who were going to Costa Rica check out Nicaragua instead.


    https://www.laprensa.com.ni/2020/08/...bre-el-farmaco

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    For those who actually live here these border problems have another aspect. If the night of breaking glass comes to Nic we think we are going to lay low for a day and then head for the airport or the nearest border. Heads up Pookie, there is no airport and there are no borders. I can just imagine the CR dipshits saying they won't recognize Anglo-Saxons as political refugees, only peepul of color can be refugees.

    Be that as it may, I have been watching the situation in spain. they played it by the numbers and got the new cases down and as soon as they cautiously opened up they had 60 hotspots. Economically desperate (a southern European norm?) they opened up to selective tourism including UK. As soon as Brits arrived, the UK gov suddenly whipped a 14 day quarantine on returning countrymen with no notice. Smile, Brits, your week vacation just got stretched to 3 weeks!

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by RGV AG View Post
    You can for sure get a piece of paper saying that you tested negative in Mexico, for the right price, but an actual test in 72 hours? .
    We can only get a test for cause. Have not checked, but bet pending travel is not one of then.

    The testing is one of the amazing things though. March 2020 there were zero test stations and zero test facilities in the US and Canada. Just forward to June and thousands were done a day.

    Here we were barely doing 10,000 a day end April and May. Now we are doing 30,000 a day. Each sample test is one hour. So 30 000 hours a day of testing from zero in 4.5 months. They must be done in parallel of course.

    But I imagine the logistics to focus 30,000 tests to labs, fi ish the test and then process the numbers and report up every day.

    Unlike the uninformed here in Ontario who think money grows on trees and housing is a right regardless of social contribution, and protest to high heaven what ever is close to their trigger button that day, I am damn impressed
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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    La Prensa had an article about a Russian vaccine rolling out on Aug 17. Even if they start inoculating people by end of August it will put enormous pressure on the US. https://www.laprensa.com.ni/2020/08/...bre-el-farmaco
    Fauci doesn't think it's any good. No surprise there.
    https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-russi...ective-1522270

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    Active TRN Member RGV AG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    We can only get a test for cause. Have not checked, but bet pending travel is not one of then.

    The testing is one of the amazing things though. March 2020 there were zero test stations and zero test facilities in the US and Canada. Just forward to June and thousands were done a day.

    Here we were barely doing 10,000 a day end April and May. Now we are doing 30,000 a day. Each sample test is one hour. So 30 000 hours a day of testing from zero in 4.5 months. They must be done in parallel of course.

    But I imagine the logistics to focus 30,000 tests to labs, fi ish the test and then process the numbers and report up every day.

    Unlike the uninformed here in Ontario who think money grows on trees and housing is a right regardless of social contribution, and protest to high heaven what ever is close to their trigger button that day, I am damn impressed

    Testing is a part of the issue with this mess, for sure. What part I am not sure, but the lack of equal procedures and standardization, not to mention consistency, is a GD mess creating deal for sure.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    Fauci doesn't think it's any good. No surprise there.
    https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-russi...ective-1522270


    There seems to be strong and well organized efforts in the US to keep the vaccine unavailable until after the election. Keep the kids out of school. Max disruption until the election.

    And then,, Chad City nationally, with a flood of mail in ballots of dubious provenance.
    We may not know by Inauguration Day who won.

    The article I read stated that Russia is going to manufacture the vaccine at their Cold War germ warfare facility,, Vektor.

    Supposedly, VEKTOR has the capacity to manufacture enormous amounts of the vaccine,, and is not bothered by ethical concerns like the use of fetal tissue to culture the vaccine, and using the Russian army to test the vaccine. To me, it sounds like a great idea. To others,, "Well, there is the question of consent . . . . " We've become a country of SnowFlakes, and people are dying.

    From Wikipedia,,, not Sputnik:

    Organized in 1974, the center has a long history of virology, making impressive Soviet contribution to smallpox research.[3] Genetic engineering projects included creation of viruses that manufacture toxins as well as research on bioregulators and various peptides that function in the nervous system.[4] In the post-soviet times the center made research and development cotributions in many projects like a vaccine for Hepatitis A, influenza vaccines, vaccines for the Ebola virus,[5] antiviral drugs with nucleotide analogs,[6] test-systems for diagnostics of HIV and Hepatitis B and other development.[7]


    A stalwart of the black press shared her dream today of a CNN split screen,, showing Sleepy Joe being inaugurated on one side, and video of Trump being dragged out of the White House by police and military on the other.

    I'll take the credibility of Sputnik over April Ryan and the black press association, and give odds. She has been caught with her head up her generous butt on numerous occasions .


    Nicaragua would be the perfect, in-your-face,, test site for the Russian Vaccine.

    Will it happen ? I'd take the shot.

    I don't trust Putin any more than Fauci,, but I don't trust him any less either

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    The BCG vaccine, which has been around since 1921, with very few side effects, and is routinely given to infants in many countries of the world (to prevent TB) except the USA, Canada and many in Europe, boosts the immune system and may well protect against covid-19. But after 8 months, no solid conclusion has been made by the "global scientific community" though research continues. This new Dutch study shows hope because they gave the vaccine to a group of healthy volunteers in 2017-18, well before the SARS-CoV-2 virus appeared. But their conclusion is mealy-mouthed:
    BCG vaccination is not associated with increased incidence of symptoms during the COVID-19 outbreak in the Netherlands. Our data suggest that BCG vaccination might be associated with a decrease in the incidence of sickness during the COVID-19 pandemic and lower incidence of extreme fatigue. In conclusion, recent BCG vaccination is safe and large randomized trials are needed to reveal if BCG reduces the incidence and/or severity of SARS-CoV-2 infection.
    https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-me...20)30093-8.pdf
    Basically, with the BCG group and the control all consisting of healthy subjects, most did not get sick, none were hospitalized. Inexplicably, they were not all tested, PCR nor the antibodies tests. They just reported back whether or not they'd gotten sick.

    In fairness, this study had had a different aim. They'd measured cytokine production before and after the vaccine.

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    The "success" rate of many vaccines would get a college (and many high school) coaches fired before end of the season...
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Stay away from super spreaders, and lots of people, not magic.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
    Ernie K Doe

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Ontario (14M) has 76 cases recorded today.

    We work on the premises ot 1 test = 10 untested infected in the field...

    We have not had a death recorded for C-19 this week.

    Just like Cook Show says - Stay away from people you don't know (Adult version of Stranger Danger ) and keep your mask on and space about you and you be (mostly) fine...
    ==================================================
    Dude !!!.... Its a Canal !!! Can you Dig it ??

  24. #24

    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    Ontario (14M) has 76 cases recorded today.

    We work on the premises ot 1 test = 10 untested infected in the field...

    We have not had a death recorded for C-19 this week.

    Just like Cook Show says - Stay away from people you don't know (Adult version of Stranger Danger ) and keep your mask on and space about you and you be (mostly) fine...


    Maybe,, but we've been wearing masks now for a while and after cases and deaths were trending down,,, today was a really bad day. ,, Florida, California and Texas were the leaders, but Arizona bumped back up to 36


    The necessity of wearing masks has cut down on the number of people in the stores,, if he store is not well AC'ed, the mask is miserable in this heat. It was 108 F again today

  25. #25
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccines and herd immunity

    Tucson has always been know as on the cool side for the desert. My town predicitions are 116 to 120 for the weekend. Toasty.
    7 day moving average in AZ is 54, lower than July but many times more than April.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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