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Thread: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

  1. #1

    Default Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sw...ing-2020-08-24


    " . . Arne Elofsson, a professor in biometrics at Stockholm University, thinks the population has developed a form of immunity: “Strict rules do not work as people seem to break them. Sweden is doing fine.”


    Anders Tegnell, an epidemiologist involved in managing Sweden’s pandemic, thinks masks give a false sense of security: “The belief that masks can solve our problem is very dangerous.”

    But Sweden's herd immunity wouldn't work in the US,, or would it?

    Sweden's total deaths of 5813 extrapolated to our population of 350 Million (Sweden is 10 million) would mean a total death count in the US of 203,445. We are getting pretty close to that number,, today was 181K.
    Nicaragua's "sweden" number would be 3800, about 1200 more than where the citizen's Observatory puts deaths in Nicaraguaat the moment.
    Nicaragua started so much later in the game.


    Minsa should start keeping count now
    Last edited by KeyWestPirate; 08-24-2020 at 05:48 PM.

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    The only trustworthy statement there is, "Strict rules do not work as people seem to break them."

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    Anders Tegnell, an epidemiologist involved in managing Sweden’s pandemic, thinks masks give a false sense of security: “The belief that masks can solve our problem is very dangerous.”
    But Anders is also the one who admitted his advise to "just go with the flow was flawed and too many died" (paraphrased)

    The problem is that to minimise death in a pandemic you need to have common sense rules (With fines, not prison time) and a general concern for your fellow human. (Any human)

    The new case spreading (pun intended) in the news yesterday of a Hong Kong man entering 2nd wave infection with a new infection gives serious pause to both herd immunity (by antibody) and by vaccine.

    Heard immunity is also achieved by cull...
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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    But Anders is also the one who admitted his advise to "just go with the flow was flawed and too many died" (paraphrased)
    I caught that interview on BBC. His expressed regret was that the elderly, esp, in nursing homes, weren't better protected. Not that the general idea that natural resistance of most will eventually protect all by limiting viral sources was wrong.

    The militarization of a general populace by rule - common sense is anything but common - works fine with people predisposed to order & regimentation, like Germans & Asians. But not all societies fit that bill. Some are overburdened with cowboys, hippies, mad scientists, money-obsessed financiers, junkies, beach bums, and politicos.

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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    OK, so lets taks that at face value with him stating elder care homes were not addressed early enough - What have the most effected countries done on this?

    For us it was kind of a shite show. Previous governments had moved the elder care model from and 80/20 public private model to a 20/80 public private model. The premier of Ontario who started the trend (I guy I admire actually, Mike Harris) was on the board of on of the largest long term providers.

    People were stacked like chord wood 4 to a ward, not all with Air Conditioning and the PSWs were paid minimum wage and less than 30 hours (to avoid paying some employment fees and benefits) that many PSWs moved to working at numerous homes to make ends meet.

    That was the spark that did us in - Too many PSWs dropping flaming embers from home to home.

    Now today it been made mandatory than employees or volunteer for compromised health people can only work in one facility - Rooms have to be modified to a maximum of 2 and AC will be mandated.

    The funny hing is that the publicly run homes and group homes had 1/3 the mortality of the for profit homes. Some of that could be related to sheer numbers (20/80) but there was not one example where the public home exceeded a for profit home in the same city.

    Now before you jump the conclusion that public means Gov - Its complicated - It is more a non profit model- A public home is either rated on the estate worth divided by something like 84 months up to a maximum value - Or if is a Canada pension recipient it is something like 85% of the CPP benifit is payed to the home. Homes are run by the region, not the federal or provincial gov

    Private homes start at $3500 for just room and board (all meals and cleaning in) up to 6500/mo for full assisted living.

    My Mom Jokes she will just hop on a cruise ship for $3500 month to retire if the house gets too much for her...
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    "Some are overburdened with cowboys, hippies, mad scientists, money-obsessed financiers, junkies, beach bums, and politicos. "

    You forgot that really nutty and special group,, expats in Nicaragua. All of the above except money obsessed -financiers and politicos.

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Covid has turned out to be a really bad pandemic for people who like instant gratification and 100% fixes. Americans are too cheap and freedom-loving to get by a simple pandemic, we have to turn it into a complete disaster. Crap looks like it may very well linger on into 2022 on a world wide basis. Lets hope somebody cons the airlines into running at least one regular flight before then.

    5 years ago nursing homes in L.A. were running 6k a month, with Medicaid picking up most of it after one's 100 day Medicare ran out. It varies by state, but most go after one's estate for repayment of some of it. No, you can't take it with you.

    Swedes are (mostly) high IQ affluent types who can self-isolate, etc., better than row-run Americans, Peruvians, etc. Still, their deaths per million are running right between USA and Arizona with less economic damage.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


  8. #8

    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    So,, Sweden's COVID deaths per million are identical to those of the US,, 577 vs 578.

    But Sweden is back to business as usual, with the odd death now and then.


    https://fee.org/articles/sweden-now-...hy-it-matters/

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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    So,, Sweden's COVID deaths per million are identical to those of the US,, 577 vs 578. But Sweden is back to business as usual, with the odd death now and then.
    I agree with your point, esp. comparing countries, and the state of the pandemic in general, by viewing death rates.

    Yet now the story in the press is overwhelmingly focused on 'cases'. Kids go back to college, maybe even party, and there's a spike in 'cases' there. Good golly, this is an age-group who may test positive for the virus, but show no signs of illness, nor actually suffer any debilitation - kids who could easily be monitored. Since when were schools closed for the common seasonal flu or colds. Those who are susceptible to more severe health effects - well identified by now - must isolate themselves from exposure, or be isolated by responsible authorities. These are few. To condemn all of society to paralysis in order to protect a few is nonsense. Or 2020 politics.

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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Yes, deaths per million are very important to consider-
    Taiwan .3
    Korea 7
    Singapore 5
    Australia 30
    New Zealand 5

    and Sweden's neighbors--

    Finland 61
    Denmark 108
    Norway 49

    And none of these countries are suspected of cooking the books as far as I know.

    Coming out of the lockdowns many people are more knowledgeable and will take more care. Others will be careless. I have been following Spain which had a much more strict lockdown than the US and they waited till they got the numbers down to reopen. The problems that are coming up are family get-togethers, night clubs, tourists, migrant laborers, and youths drinking in large groups. Lawsuits and anti-mask rallies are taking place. Spain has moved control down to the local entities and they are each doing what they think necessary. Various countries are banning travel to Spain. You can't fix stupid.

    CR is acting less stupid lately. They are letting residents in who are behind on their social security payments (with pressure to get current immediately) and are letting tourists register their health insurance online before flying. They are even letting US tourists email copies of their drivers licenses to prove they are from an approved state.

    Travel just isn't as fun as it used to be.
    Last edited by el duende grande; 09-08-2020 at 09:50 PM.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by el duende grande View Post
    Travel just isn't as fun as it used to be.
    Well, you could be going to Nicaragua by horseback through Mexico, or sailing on a clipper ship. Or going on a bus that keeps breaking down. All in the pre-cell phone and internet days, with only cash to get you through. The post-WWII to Covid 19 era was a pretty good time for the commoner.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    "Horseback through Mexico"

    Well,, if I were younger.
    My butt hurts just thinking about it.
    There has to be a boat out of Miami that is taking the parcels I ship.

    Today will be the first below 100F (31 to you Canadians). I can wait until November.

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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Lifestyle differences. People are different. Vive la différence. "En este mundo matraca, de morir nadie se escapa."
    Some may prefer to live like Asians, and they may soon get their chance. There are clearly genetic difference at play here. Sars-1 cut thru the Taiwanese like a scythe; lab-designed Sars-2 chops down old, infirm round-eyes who are not by nature self-isolating, which is to say, those who prefer the company of others, and refuse known prophylaxis meds

    Masks are fluff. All not self-sufficient hermits will eventually be exposed. A virus doesn't die. Vaccines?

    Yes, deaths per million are very important to consider-
    Taiwan .3
    Korea 7
    Singapore 5
    Australia 30
    New Zealand 5
    _____ and Sweden's neighbors--
    Finland 61
    Denmark 108
    Norway 49
    And none of these countries are suspected of cooking the books as far as I know.

    Coming out of the lockdowns many people are more knowledgeable and will take more care. Others will be careless. Various countries are banning travel to Spain. You can't fix stupid.

    Dollars are more important to Ticos than sex. Meanwhile the Ortegas are focused on preserving the dynasty. Nicas can fend for themselves.
    CR is acting less stupid lately. They are letting residents in who are behind on their social security payments (with pressure to get current immediately) and are letting tourists register their health insurance online before flying. They are even letting US tourists email copies of their drivers licenses to prove they are from an approved state.

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    Today will be the first below 100F (31 to you Canadians).
    98.6F=37C I was aware the Canadian dollar had been devalued, but not their temperature scale.

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    If Nicaragua is like Sweden, when does that Ikea open on Car. Masaya?
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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    98.6F=37C I was aware the Canadian dollar had been devalued, but not their temperature scale.
    This summer we did have some 100F days - Before humidex - The highest with Humidex was 46C (feels like 114F)
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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    The Swedes need to bring in some Muslims to run it. It's the fair thing to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    If Nicaragua is like Sweden, when does that Ikea open on Car. Masaya?

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    The Ticos are so amazing. They have build their country to be -- almost-- another Southern Europe by their own efforts. The question is, who needs another Southern Europe? And who is going to be the Germany to support them? Recently Spain petitioned "the EU" for "permanent debt". A refreshing breath of air. In America we call it a deficit and only talk about it at election time.

    They have done some revenue enhancement lately. It is now a crime punishable by a fine for whistling at a woman in public. That should be a money maker.

    But officer, I was looking for my dog. Where could that mutt be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    Lifestyle differences. People are different. Vive la différence. "En este mundo matraca, de morir nadie se escapa."
    Some may prefer to live like Asians, and they may soon get their chance. There are clearly genetic difference at play here. Sars-1 cut thru the Taiwanese like a scythe; lab-designed Sars-2 chops down old, infirm round-eyes who are not by nature self-isolating, which is to say, those who prefer the company of others, and refuse known prophylaxis meds

    Masks are fluff. All not self-sufficient hermits will eventually be exposed. A virus doesn't die. Vaccines?




    Dollars are more important to Ticos than sex. Meanwhile the Ortegas are focused on preserving the dynasty. Nicas can fend for themselves.




    98.6F=37C I was aware the Canadian dollar had been devalued, but not their temperature scale.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    ...with a 6 foot stick and mask and gloves....


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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    So Spain is Europe’s loss-leader. As long as the EU overall stays in the black, it’s all good? That’s a terribly unhealthy way to live. Is the EU even in the black?

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    . Is the EU even in the black?
    Ummmm No...
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    I expected so, but the chart doesn't tell me anything. I don't know what the percent means.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    This summer we did have some 100F days - Before humidex - The highest with Humidex was 46C (feels like 114F)
    I set my phone to display C,, and we got a touch of that gorgeous cold finger that brought snow to Colorado. So,, it's 14 C this morning. And 31 at 3PM Beautiful sleeping weather last night, no drone of the cooler.

    I could live with temps like that.
    Although I still wish I were on the farm.
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    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    ... I still wish I were on the farm.
    OK Pirate, fess up, is it the farm
    or Krisnia (shown suckling a piglet) you miss?

  23. #23

    Default Re: Is Nicaragua Sweden ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    OK Pirate, fess up, is it the farm
    or Krisnia (shown suckling a piglet) you miss?
    A lot of both. It's boring here, until yesterday, miserably hot. Cool and overcast, probably thanks to the California fires.

    Krakatoa on a different timeline.

    The solution to Global Warning: Burn California.

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