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Thread: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

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    Default Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    This is a comment from a retired pharmacist on a Medscape bulletin board.
    The article being commented on was,, Why Vaccine Resistance


    I’ve closely followed the unfolding SARS- COVID2 drama, I’ve found it harder and harder to get at truth. Press releases say one thing, then in the underlying studies, there is another story. Our government and government agencies have lied to us…boldly, right in people's faces. There is money attached. Information is a shifting sand of daily talking points. They have patronized the people, disrespected differing clinical and professional opinions, and suppressed scientific discussion, and deplatformed respected voices. Data has been falsified and trolls are everywhere. The general public is becoming surly. Is it any wonder that ordinary people no longer believe you about COVID.


    The comment was not unique,, there were several in a similar vein including one from a nurse who suffered a life threatening complication from a vaccination that took her many years, and a huge financial toll, to recover from.

    Science isnt TRUTH. Science is our best critical analysis of data. Big difference. One reason there is rejection of "science" is because scientists make alot of mistakes and suffer extreme bias in research too. The psychological factor here is not in the disbelief of science but in the blind faith of anything called science, or scientists. Blind faith in a matter of faith is fine. Blind faith in science because we think our thinking and data collection is far inferior and lethal.



    I am very intrigued with this topic. I am a BSN nurse who very much enjoys science coming from a family of teachers, physicists, engineers. I also have a significant group of my family including at least one adult child that is an antivaxxer. Most of my children are 30s and 40s adults with children to raise and all, thank God, are doing a pretty good job. Here's my point. The physician writing the article is doing a good work; noble in fact, with the operative word of "credible" when describing the goal of sharing information that is trusted and used to make informed decisions. The problem is a lack of credible information; even downright false, being disseminated as gospel that the remembering public is aware of. The 1940's had as a standard of practice frontal lobotomy as an ethical, moral treatment for certain mental illnesses. If you disagreed and had credentials, you'd have been effectively ostracized or at least contained with your disgusting non-evidence based opinion. 1960's saw highly credentialed experts declaring at the UN of all places an end to disease as we know it due to the fully utilized age of antibiotics, two decades before anyone had a glimpse of antibiotic resistance. As a boy in the sixties, I remember it not being odd when a doctor could enter the exam room and sit down to talk and light a cigarette to have a friendly chat. Within the last several decades, both the AMA and APA have made statements suggesting same sex parenting is no different in children's outcomes health wise when for those living in, working in the field of traditional Christian family support ministries have experienced observations this is demonstrably false. This area of being preached at by scientists with unequivocal declarations that prove to be false have weakened the scientific communities credibility. Hence; the distrust that brings us to the current challenges of swaying public behaviors. As with all efforts to lead or influence; trust and credibility are the engine of efficacy.




    I eat a bowl of oatmeal every day and I recommend others do it too. It tastes like shredded cardboard but there are multiple health benefits. It some authority issued an Oatmeal Mandate, I would be opposed to it. But I would still eat oatmeal and recommend it to others.

    Opposition to a vaccine mandated should not equate to opposing a vaccine.


    For the most part, very articulate comments that avoided any name calling.
    But there were a few:



    From a pathologist:

    Go to Antarctica. In the real world with real humans at risk, vaccines will be mandated 100% WTF are you even in health'care', when your apparent egregious ignorance will lead to harming many? Don't answer, I'm not reading your responses

    And a response from another doctor:

    You don’t actually deal with living patients.

  2. #2
    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Coca Cola originally had cocaine, 7-up had lithium. German soldiers took meth to enhance their battle performance. Doctors smoked. The government approved thalidomide. And lobotomies. So yeah, trust big corporations, the medical community, and trust government.

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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    You forgot the food pyramid, the evils of egg yolks, stain drugs... The American medical profession had comorbidities going into this pandemic. In my life in small town AZ I saw them all, pill-pushers and bean counters, lackeys for the insurance companies. Foreign born crooks with the morals of the middle eastern bazaar and home-grown mamby-pambies. And not to forget the Dr. Mengele types in the AZ VA.

    Case in point--the 2 killers in covid are obesity and uncontrolled diabetes. With all this hysteria about forced vaccinations and masks, why no emphasis on getting rid of the blubber and self-inflicted diabetes? Of course, that would be "racist" because blacks and Mexicans are disproportionately fat! And it would be treating the problem, not the down stream results.

    We all have our fears, and 3 of my biggies are car wrecks, doctors, and post-menopausal women. Nor necessarily in that order.

    And a tip for President Harris-- fire Fauci. The damage is already done, but you could score points for having no talent other than pigmentation.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    Covid was an intelligence test and we flunked.



  4. #4

    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    I see more and more references to the vaccine as a "therapeutic".
    Something you can take to blunt the worst of the virus symptoms. And reduce your chance of dying.
    Not a vaccine in the conventional sense.

    At least some honesty finally.
    From that perspective,, it has value.
    If it keeps you from dying, or from getting seriously ill,, even if you get sick,, clearly the vaccine has value.
    So does the long list of other therapeutics that blunt the severity of the illness.

    But it seems like the original goal of stopping the virus through a massive vaccination is not going to be met.
    People are still getting sick after receiving the vaccination. And some number are still dying.

    Originally, it was a rare "break through",, happens,, the way the cookie crumbles, they told us.
    but significant numbers of new Covid cases are now reported in vaccinated patients.

    On the other hand,, multiple reports are starting to appear about the value of immunity received after contracting the virus. And the rarity of re-infection.

    If this immunity remains viable, and they indicate that it does based on tracking large groups of people who contracted the virus over a year ago, then it seems that we will eventually realize that magical "herd immunity".
    The key word here is .... eventually. We have a ways to go.

    There will always be a pool of the virus present. In other countries, in clusters here.
    And probably in animal populations (if you believe the bat origin story).

    But if enough people have acquired immunity,, it's not going anywhere.

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Gene therapy, yeah. Don't play God with my genes.

    The Tuskegee experiment is another example of "trust science, trust government."

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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Got this email this morning:
    "How can you think straight and make rational decisions when each and everyday you hear conflicting and contradictory information from “authoritative” sources? You can’t. No one can. That’s the whole point. That’s why the powers that be are doing this.

    "Welcome to the secular hell of a post-truth world.

    "We don’t need to wear masks. No wait, now we do. Hold up now we need to wear two masks. We can stop wearing masks now. Surprise, we need to wear masks again. Actually it turns out masks aren’t as effective as we thought.

    "We just need 15 days to slow the spread. Now we need a month. Maybe a year. Never mind, we didn’t need to lockdown at all and it caused more harm than good.

    "Don’t take any vaccine that Donald Trump rushed to market. You didn’t get the vaccine, are you nuts? The vaccine is highly effective. Oops it looks like highly vaccinated Israel is having a major outbreak. Get the vaccine or lose your job.

    "Are you keeping up? This is the reality of living in a post-truth world.

    "They want us shell shocked with rapidly changing information overload which leads to option paralysis and fear. When people are in a state of fear coupled with option paralysis they are very susceptible to manipulation and easy to control.

    "While we are all dazed and confused they are destroying families, small businesses, and entire nations. They are rigging elections, they are botching troop withdrawals to flood western countries with refugees, the American border is being invaded by hundreds of thousands of people, they are buying up single family homes and pricing you out of the market, they are printing endless money and inflating your currency.

    "They are transferring trillions of dollars in wealth to themselves and shutting up each and every last voice of dissent to it all while doing it.

    "All the while you worry about a virus that statistically you have a 99% chance of surviving with the immune system God gave you.

    "It’s exhausting and impossible to keep up with by design. It’s meant to drain you mentally, physically, and spiritually so that you submit to their control. Don’t.

    "In the post-truth world anything goes. Chaos reigns. Those who create the chaos manifest their means of control. Do not comply. Do not give them one inch. Stand your ground. Hold the line."
    From Gab.com CEO Andrew Torba

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Exactly right!!!

  8. #8
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    I think that the odd part now a days is the speed of data.

    It used to be months years before erroneous data, or conclusions, were corrected or refined (Peer papers, published text books etc etc)

    Now that happens in days or weeks - Fertile ground for nay sayers and tin foil hatters.

    Heck, just in the last couple days the data is starting to come to light that the quantity of people developing blood clots are an order of magnitude greater with actual C-19 infection vs the suite of vaccines currently available.

    Sure both cause more clots than a typical distribution of clots in a society, but which would rather have?

    Anyways we all have made our choices and now just need to see how it all unfolds.
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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    Heck, just in the last couple days the data is starting to come to light that the quantity of people developing blood clots are an order of magnitude greater with actual C-19 infection vs the suite of vaccines currently available. . . . which would rather have?
    As if the choice were only binary.

    One expects from our science officer (TRN's truth-sayer?) to see references to such pronouncements. I mean, heck.
    See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil: be a wise simian

  10. #10

    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    I think that the odd part now a days is the speed of data.

    It used to be months years before erroneous data, or conclusions, were corrected or refined (Peer papers, published text books etc etc)

    Now that happens in days or weeks - Fertile ground for nay sayers and tin foil hatters.

    Heck, just in the last couple days the data is starting to come to light that the quantity of people developing blood clots are an order of magnitude greater with actual C-19 infection vs the suite of vaccines currently available.

    Sure both cause more clots than a typical distribution of clots in a society, but which would rather have?

    Anyways we all have made our choices and now just need to see how it all unfolds.

    The amount of data is enormous.
    All google has to do to hide something they don't agree with is rank it lower.

    Are these clots serious? OK,, any blood clot is serious.
    One time event after the vaccination?

    Any vaccine has some side effects. You get T-boned by a semi on your way home from the vaccination site.
    Is that counted as a vaccination death?

    Do I sound cynical? Surly?

    Biden's handlers put a 9/11 photo op ahead of common sense in their plan to leave Afghanistan.
    I guess if you are a Biden/Harris fan, the collateral damage was worth it.

    The fat lady hasn't sung by a long shot on this Covid thing. Who knows where it's going?
    But it looks like lock downs are a thing of the past,, everywhere except New Zealand.
    As it is rolling out,, they will pay the piper eventually.
    The price will be less than paid by Italy, Spain, the UK, and yes, the US ---maybe.

  11. #11
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post

    Are these clots serious? OK,, any blood clot is serious.
    One time event after the vaccination?
    Bloomberg bit Citing a university of Edenborough study

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    Any vaccine has some side effects. You get T-boned by a semi on your way home from the vaccination site.
    Is that counted as a vaccination death?
    Maybe in the US - Not here.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate View Post
    The fat lady hasn't sung by a long shot on this Covid thing. Who knows where it's going?
    South African variant is coming (1.2.1) which showing some vaccine resistance.


    And To D-Yo

    Choices are binary - You are either with the (sometimes false, or maybe better said incomplete) consensus of health care providers than a bunch of talking heads who are typically selling some _other_ commercial or social side good or narritive.

    I chose the shot at 25% for me, 75% so that the country as a whole can move on - And with 4th wave (hopefully ) is peaking at less than a 1/4 of 3rd wave (Todays R number to 1.1 and 700 cases / day) so we may have done it.

    But time will tell.
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    House SOB Little Corn Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post

    I chose the shot at 25% for me, 75% so that the country as a whole can move on -
    .
    God Bless you Bill for your selfless sacrifice. Brings a tear to my eye.......
    Life's different here ... It's a whole 'nother pace.

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Corn Tom View Post
    God Bless you Bill for your selfless sacrifice. Brings a tear to my eye.......
    Sniff sniff
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    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    Choices are binary
    Utter nonsense.

    the data: the quantity of people developing blood clots are an order of magnitude greater with actual C-19 infection vs the suite of vaccines currently available.
    There are a multitude of safe & effective ways of avoiding infection with these Chinese lab-modified & evolved viruses other than the stock vaccinations. Few, if any, present clotting complications.

    Science officer Bly, you appear to be misrepresenting the study results. Obviously there are many who have been infected with covid, that were never tested and have shown little or no symptoms, much less blood clots, especially the youth of the world. Clearly the study is limiting the sampling and you are intentionally misinforming us to propagandize your committed position, for which the Queen, Fauci & Biden thank you.
    See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil: be a wise simian

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy-YO View Post
    much less blood clots, especially the youth of the world. Clearly the study is limiting the sampling and you are intentionally misinforming us to propagandize your committed position, for which the Queen, Fauci & Biden thank you.
    Then it is just a statically anomaly then over 20 million samples - OK - if that is what you think
    Last edited by bill_bly_ca; 08-31-2021 at 06:41 PM.
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    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Short term results are in -- no big statistically important bad outcomes. however, if there were bad results the government would try to hide it. Mid term results won't be available for years. Here's hoping--half the planet will be vaccinated by then.
    I would have gladly hid from the vaccine but my family visit travel this spring put me in the middle of the CR spike so I grudgingly went for the Jensen.
    Neighbor's father was buried yesterday--Ambulance staff and family in cars with windows rolled up were allowed to attend.
    Unbelievable percentage of people in Esteli wearing masks. Unbelievable number of fat people still alive waiting their turn.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    Covid was an intelligence test and we flunked.



  17. #17
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    For me this has nothing to do with covid vaccine: yes or no, good or bad. It is more about understanding: How has gain of function made this virus such a bug-a-boo? What has zeroing in on this spike protein modification in order to target these experimental m-RNA "vaccines" meant to our human biology? What will it mean as variants and booster shots become regular events?


    To Officer Bly, that was rather low of you to suggest I'm saying about what you report is a "statistical anomaly."

    Scientific reports digested by the popular press are, in general, untrustworthy. Bloomberg has a clear prejudice to sell to the captains of industry and it's written in globalist dollar signs. They say, "the study followed 29 million people who received their first doses of either AstraZeneca or Pfizer vaccine ... and also tracked about 1.7 million Covid-19 patients." No citation to the original work.

    Where did they find these covid patients? In hospitals? What treatments were they getting? Not knowing what they're comparing, how can you say, "the quantity of people developing blood clots are an order of magnitude greater with actual C-19 infection vs the suite of vaccines?" Irresponsible reportage, sir.

    It's critical to read and understand the original. Otherwise all is sound & fury amounting to noise, not signal.


    Sis'n-law's boss' sis works in the hospital in Esteli. She said the morgue was full, but they're being told by top officials to only release 2 bodies per day and to report causes other than covid. It means wakes and viewings are superspreader events.

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Although the study noted the increased likelihood of the disorder, it also “underscores the importance of getting vaccinated to reduce the risk of these clotting and bleeding outcomes in individuals,” said Aziz Sheikh, a co-author of the study and professor at the University of Edinburgh.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Sis'n-law's boss' sis works in the hospital in Esteli. She said the morgue was full, but they're being told by top officials to only release 2 bodies per day and to report causes other than covid. It means wakes and viewings are superspreader events.

    Reminds me of that line in Captain Ron
    " .... .. .. we have no refrigeration"

    Should keep attendance at velas down.

    Captain Ron was about alternative realities (among other things).
    The world we current live in.

  20. #20
    Viejo del Foro Daddy-YO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Thanks for the link, officer Bly. Your quote is from the Bloomberg article and is not supported by the original study. Of course, doctoring & medical research are professions, and their practitioners are smart enough to know what side of their bread is buttered. Professional integrity is in extremely short supply these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    Although the study noted the increased likelihood of the disorder, it also “underscores the importance of getting vaccinated to reduce the risk of these clotting and bleeding outcomes in individuals,” said Aziz Sheikh, a co-author of the study and professor at the University of Edinburgh.
    https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931
    See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil: be a wise simian

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    A
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    I took a waltz down memory lane last night reading a long Medscape study from January of this year.

    This dates back to when we all thought,, we just have to get the vaccine out there and this will be over



    One thing in the article that struck me was how they could have three studies,, of say,, ivermectin, and one would say,, significant benefit,, the other would say, didn't help at all, and finally,, more people died who were given ivermectin.At this point in time, ivermectin was still a valid treatment possibility.Ivermectin costs a few cents a dose,, monoclonal antibody treatment is $1200 and requires the additional expense of infusion.

    Timing is critical for many of these treatment options. Access drives much of the medical community's income. They are loathe to relinquish this access.

    My point: a study can be structured to prove anything.
    If your name is Regeneron, you can fund a study that proves that ivermectin is not only worthless, but harmful as well. Give the ivermectin only to hospitalized patients, when the window of opportunity passed two weeks prior,, and sure,, it won't help.

    Give it only to patients on ventilators, and an amazing number will die .
    And now,, they avoid intubation in favor of other means of supplying oxygen.
    Ventilators are yesterday's news.

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Here's a doctor who pushes all the buttons of anti-vaxers. Don't watch it if you think the vaccines are God's gift to humanity.


  24. #24
    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Here's a doctor who pushes all the buttons of anti-vaxers. Don't watch it if you think the vaccines are God's gift to humanity.

    Looks like the youtube gods have spoken and the video shows as unavailable.

    But going back to D-Yo's binary comments.

    The vaccine is binary - Those who have take it can not "Un-take it"

    The last 18% up here (We are 82% first, no reason to believe that if yo took 1st you wont take the second) I would _guess_ that a good 1/2 of those are never vaxers and they will never take it.

    The a not so subtle push to get that last few percent has started - As of the 22nd you can not enter nonessential businesses without the certificate (Indoor dining, Gyms, Movie Theaters etc)

    I can see the US's dilemma that a group effort, with self sacrifise and group resolve is needed to quash replication of the infection is juxtaposed to the banner of individual rights, freedom of choice and goverment interference.

    This will probably leave the US, possibly Brazil, and a lot of the EU will still be stuck in this rollercoaster of infections up, infections down for 18 months to 2 yrs longer.

    The Netherlands is very antivax - Some of my cousins and one aunt are over the wall loopy on it. Historically they have been having 2 to 3X the Canadian infection rate, but oddly not as high as the US but I never really looked at the data or discussed it with them

    You know the saying about us Dutch men.... Wooden shoes, Wooden head, Wouldn't listen...
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  25. #25
    Viejo del Foro el duende grande's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid "Truth" vs Reality

    Going back to January, the mathematically changed and the wishful thinkers have a fundamental problem--if a vaccine is 90% effective that means it is 10 INNEFFECTIVE. Then comes Delta spreading it faster.

    Reality, we need a high level of vaccination, semi-permanent or a least seasonal protocols (masks), and changes in lifestyle, public health codes, and labor laws. I'll through in border controls, too. Way to much for a corrupt and dying nation like the US.

    Saw the new Oxygen store in Esteli!

    CR, despite its massive vaccine campaign , is still not reeling it in. Maybe by the end of the year.

    "Support mental health or I'll break your head"

    Covid was an intelligence test and we flunked.



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