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Thread: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

  1. #1
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    Default Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Looking for these two items used in Nicaragua. Any information any of the two, please contact me. Thank you

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    House SOB Little Corn Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    There is an ultralight on Big Corn ....I forget who owns it. Behind one of the hotels. Ask Marlies.
    Life's different here ... It's a whole 'nother pace.

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    Viejo del Foro Just Plain John Wayne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Now why in the hell would anyone want one of those?

    You can´t carry many ¨White Snappers¨ on it.....
    To be called a "Has Been" I must surmise, is much Greater than to be called a "Nevah Been"... JW...



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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    The one on Corn belongs to Skip Glass, owner of Anastasia`s and needs service really bad and he does not want to sell.
    I had a Quicksilver in Galapagos that was great to fly and actually went fishing on it too, but mostly spotting marine life. I think it would be great for the coast, they carry up to three persons or two with a lot of gear. Think of it JPJW taking off on the water from port and being over Cayos Miskitos or Laguna de Wounta in half an hour. I am trying to get Dud to put one on the river in Alamikamban to ferry people and or supplies to Bluefields or Corn. Have a look at one in the short video [yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tZru_mtf44w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tZru_mtf44w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

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    Viejo del Foro Just Plain John Wayne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    I admit Jorge, it would really be nice for a serch and rescue operation for the diving operations here when a boat sinks etc, that does occur with frequency....
    To be called a "Has Been" I must surmise, is much Greater than to be called a "Nevah Been"... JW...



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    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    So how reliable are those things?
    I am guessing no fun on a windy day.
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by randude View Post
    So how reliable are those things?
    The typical 2-stroke engines they use have a poor reliability record, and I imagine 3rd world maintenance and coastal environments make it even worse.

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    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    The typical 2-stroke engines they use have a poor reliability record, and I imagine 3rd world maintenance and coastal environments make it even worse.

    Well, you guys always say it ain't for sissies.
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    To elaborate a little, I've seriously considered a 2-stroke for my own airplane, and have sought advice from "the field." I really wanted to believe in 2-strokes, because they have a great power to weight ratio, and are somewhat affordable. But both the anecdotal and actual evidence shows that they are very finicky and must be operated much more carefully than most owners are apparently willing to do. Engine seizures and other failures are all too common among ultralight fliers.

    It's partly the fact that they run at 5-6000 RPM and more, as opposed to a 4 stroke aircraft engine running 2300-3200 RPM. The 6000 RPM is reduced by gears or belts to that 2300-3200 RPM range that the propeller can handle, but there's another failure-prone component to deal with. 2-strokes also produce significantly less torque (even through gear reduction), which translates into less thrust produced by the propeller.

    Add to that, ultralights typically have a steep glide ratio (glide like a brick) on power failure, so you have less time to plan an emergency landing.

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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    To elaborate a little, I've seriously considered a 2-stroke for my own airplane, and have sought advice from "the field." I really wanted to believe in 2-strokes, because they have a great power to weight ratio, and are somewhat affordable. But both the anecdotal and actual evidence shows that they are very finicky and must be operated much more carefully than most owners are apparently willing to do. Engine seizures and other failures are all too common among ultralight fliers.

    It's partly the fact that they run at 5-6000 RPM and more, as opposed to a 4 stroke aircraft engine running 2300-3200 RPM. The 6000 RPM is reduced by gears or belts to that 2300-3200 RPM range that the propeller can handle, but there's another failure-prone component to deal with. 2-strokes also produce significantly less torque (even through gear reduction), which translates into less thrust produced by the propeller.

    Add to that, ultralights typically have a steep glide ratio (glide like a brick) on power failure, so you have less time to plan an emergency landing.
    I know most of that stuff John, but it is good you put it out there like that. Are you sure about the torque figures though? I had always thought that the rpm and torque work together. I have seen enough 2 stroke engines in my life that needed too much care to keep running. I believe anyone that ever rides in one of those has to be thinking about landing at Any Given Time, and in some cases that means getting wet. All part of the thrill, like if the bungie cord is a few feet too long on a jump.
    Survivor

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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    It's a function of the available products. If you start with a target propeller RPM and an engine running at its rated horsepower, then take the ratios of the available PSRUs (propeller speed reduction units, or gear boxes/belt drives), the math gets you to less torque from the same horsepower. Then there's the friction loss in the PSRU where you lose horsepower, since most 4 strokes are direct-drive. To get the same thrust from a 2-stroke as from a 65 HP aircraft engine, you'd probably have to start with about 85 HP, and you lose any advantages you gained in weight, complexity, fuel economy, and cost of a 2-stroke.

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    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    It's a function of the available products. If you start with a target propeller RPM and an engine running at its rated horsepower, then take the ratios of the available PSRUs (propeller speed reduction units, or gear boxes/belt drives), the math gets you to less torque from the same horsepower. Then there's the friction loss in the PSRU where you lose horsepower, since most 4 strokes are direct-drive. To get the same thrust from a 2-stroke as from a 65 HP aircraft engine, you'd probably have to start with about 85 HP, and you lose any advantages you gained in weight, complexity, fuel economy, and cost of a 2-stroke.
    Okay, but I am drinking beer. I will check this out tomorrow. I still think you get better torgue out of a 2. Look at the speed you get out of 2 stroke motorcycle engines of only 200-400cc. Compare that to a street bike of the same cc. And it is a fast ramping too, which sounds handy when flying. Not my expertise, and I will eat my hat if needed tomorrow.
    Survivor

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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    It's seldom an apples to apples comparison. There are no directly equivalent 2 and 4 stroke aircraft engines to compare. Torque curve, cylinder displacement and compression ratio make a difference, too.

    Here is a good article http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#torque

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    Viejo del Foro Just Plain John Wayne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by randude View Post
    I know most of that stuff John, but it is good you put it out there like that. Are you sure about the torque figures though? I had always thought that the rpm and torque work together, like when I am with Crssie, and Heather, but I can´t be sure. I have seen enough 2 stroke girls in my life that needed too much care to keep humping. I believe anyone that ever rides in one of those has to be thinking about Finishing at Any Given Time, and in some cases that means getting wet. All part of the thrill, like if the bungie cord is a few feet too long on a jump.

    :LMAO:
    To be called a "Has Been" I must surmise, is much Greater than to be called a "Nevah Been"... JW...



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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Plain John Wayne View Post
    :LMAO:
    jw, you are killing me,
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Plain John Wayne View Post
    :LMAO:
    You're in rare form lately. :LMAO:
    "Un Estado que no se rigiera según la justicia se reduciría a una gran banda de ladrones." --San Agustín

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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by El Doc View Post
    You're in rare form lately. :LMAO:
    I done told you, youre´next........
    To be called a "Has Been" I must surmise, is much Greater than to be called a "Nevah Been"... JW...



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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Typical Power, Torque and Fuel Consumption for Rotax 4 stroke aircraft engines
    Power setting (%)
    65
    75

    100*


    RPM

    4800
    5000

    5800


    Power
    KW
    47.8
    55.1

    84.5


    HP

    64.1
    73.9

    115.0


    Torque


    NM

    95.1
    105.2

    139.1


    Ft Lb



    70.1
    77.6

    102.6


    Fuel Consumption
    Litres/Hr
    18.3

    21.4

    34.0


    U.S. Gal/Hr

    4.8

    5.7

    9.0


    Maximum take off power.
    Specifications and performance data shown is typical for the engines described and is general in nature.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Here is a typical 2 stroke, with wind

    [yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Rnwsr2VCp0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Rnwsr2VCp0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

    Great search and rescue, Skip has saved half that island looking for drifting fishermen. I proposed it to the Navy to patrol the coast and they loved the idea but I think they were to efficant in spotting those square grouper go fast pangas, they shot my idea down fast.....
    For rough water look up the FIB (Flying inflatable boat) on Youtube

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    Default Landing Craft Tours

    I knew I was not the only one crazy about this idea on the Coast.

    [yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tphOJK6OD2A&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tphOJK6OD2A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

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    Default Ideal Landing Craft 400 TDW LCT

    LCT.JPG

    LCT2.jpgLOA : 49.50 M BEAM MOULDED : 9.0M
    DEPTH MOULDED : 3.0M DRAFT DESIGNED : 2.4M
    DEADWEIGHT : ABOUT 400TONS MAXIMUM LOAD : ABOUT 300 TONS
    CLASS : B.K.I. (BIRO KLASIFIKASI INDONESIA)
    RAMP DOOR : 4.60 X 7.0MTR (ABT 75 TONS)
    MAIN ENGINE : 2 X YANMAR BNGG-DTE = 2 X 330 HP @ 1800RPM
    GENERATOR : DONG FENG 2 X 25KW
    FUEL CONSUMPTION : 2.0 TONS DIESEL OIL PER DAY.
    GROSS TONNAGE : 364 NET TONNAGE : 116
    SPEED : About 6.5 KNOTS LAST DRY-DOCK : DECEMBER 2007

  22. #22
    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Hey John, I guess I kind of figured out what you were saying about 4 strokes being more efficient than 2 strokes. If I understand it correctly you are reducing the shaft speed of the 2 stroke, and that is where the inefficiencies come from. I didn't put that together because I didn't think you would ever reduce the shaft speed. I stand corrected.
    Survivor

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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by randude View Post
    Hey John, I guess I kind of figured out what you were saying about 4 strokes being more efficient than 2 strokes. If I understand it correctly you are reducing the shaft speed of the 2 stroke, and that is where the inefficiencies come from. I didn't put that together because I didn't think you would ever reduce the shaft speed. I stand corrected.
    Do you ever reduce your shaft speed? :LMAO: (Sorry, I couldn't resist!!!)

  24. #24
    Active TRN Member marnica's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Do you ever reduce your shaft speed? :LMAO: (Sorry, I couldn't resist!!!)
    Don’t forget the shaft speed is directly influenced by the length of the stoke as well.:LMAO: I could help myself either.
    Here in the real world they're shutting Detroit down.

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    Viejo del Foro Just Plain John Wayne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing Craft or Ultralight plane

    I am tickled $hitless...now everyone is doing it....
    To be called a "Has Been" I must surmise, is much Greater than to be called a "Nevah Been"... JW...



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