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Thread: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    This was released recently. Nicaragua gets accused of being a horrible place for women, rife with sexism and stuff, but that hasn't matched what I've seen here compared to the US South or even Pennsylvania not that many years ago. It's below the top twenty, but ahead of some other Western European countries. My understanding is that the situation for women here is all over the map -- not all bad (Jinotega has many more women dentists than any place I'd seen in the US).

    I'm reminded of some scenes in Machete where the women were tough, technical, and completely sexy -- the dynamic is just different from that in the US.

    You have to download PDFs to see the whole thing.

    http://reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-2011/

  2. #2

    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by MizBrown View Post
    This was released recently. Nicaragua gets accused of being a horrible place for women, rife with sexism and stuff, but that hasn't matched what I've seen here compared to the US South or even Pennsylvania not that many years ago. It's below the top twenty, but ahead of some other Western European countries. My understanding is that the situation for women here is all over the map -- not all bad (Jinotega has many more women dentists than any place I'd seen in the US).

    I'm reminded of some scenes in Machete where the women were tough, technical, and completely sexy -- the dynamic is just different from that in the US.

    You have to download PDFs to see the whole thing.

    http://reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-2011/
    there you go again. what do you know of the south? i am really tired of you claiming the south is sexist. where is your evidence? and if you hate the south, why did you move so far south?

    i can only think of one person on this site that is a womanizer and he does not appear to be from the south..... what is your experience of the south?
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Demento View Post
    there you go again. what do you know of the south? i am really tired of you claiming the south is sexist. where is your evidence? and if you hate the south, why did you move so far south?

    i can only think of one person on this site that is a womanizer and he does not appear to be from the south..... what is your experience of the south?
    Thank you!! I too took exception to this proclamation.

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    I'd just like to know who gets to define "better on gender issues." Can't say I've ever heard a person in the South or anywhere tell a woman she can't do something, much less make an actual attempt to prevent it. Those who've used their selfishness to get ahead will attempt to keep everyone else back, man or woman.

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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Demento View Post
    there you go again. what do you know of the south? i am really tired of you claiming the south is sexist. where is your evidence? and if you hate the south, why did you move so far south?

    i can only think of one person on this site that is a womanizer and he does not appear to be from the south..... what is your experience of the south?

    Being a womanizer is not equal to being a sexist. I grew up in South Carolina where the textbooks discouraged women from wanting anything other than being a homemaker (and for the working class, both mom and dad were working to provide a decent living for their children -- saw that at the mills). Women in SC couldn't serve on juries when I was a kid. Maybe it's just South Carolina. I also never saw a woman dentist or a woman doctor when I lived in SC.

    If South Carolina was nuked, I would consider the country that did that sorta on the side of the good things about the US. My editor-in-chief, a South Carolinian, busted my mole in the royalties department at my publisher's. I'd actually believed my editor didn't have the time to get the figures for me, and found someone else who'd tell me what they were.

    Of course, as a woman, she couldn't get a good job in South Carolina and had to work remotely in NYC. One of my mom's maid's husbands had to work in Norfolk, VA, to get a good job (long commute from SC), so it was even worse for women.

    I lived in South Carolina from age 2 to age 15. North Carolina was a considerable improvement.

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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    I'd just like to know who gets to define "better on gender issues." Can't say I've ever heard a person in the South or anywhere tell a woman she can't do something, much less make an actual attempt to prevent it. Those who've used their selfishness to get ahead will attempt to keep everyone else back, man or woman.
    South Carolina keeps everyone back. I grew up there. From accounts by people who still live there, it hasn't changed. They still brag about how little they spend on public education in that state. I suspect they still throw rocks at girls who are too smart.

    Read the report -- I think some of why Nicaragua and Costa Rica aren't in the top 20 is the poverty -- maternal death rates counted against Nicaragua, but I suspect that bad medical care and a 50% poverty rate affects everyone.

    I don't see the global problem for Nicaraguan women who do pay attention and married or have companionships with the reasonable guys (like my neighbors or my dentists) that the white guys tell me would be here. But maybe Jinotega is very different from the rest of Nicaragua. If that's the case, I'm even more happy I picked the Nicaraguan equivalent of a Connecticut small city (it has more of a Vermont flavor to it than I expected -- all Northern ingenuity and hussle -- I felt so out of sync just being retired around all this energy that I wrote another book the first year I was here).

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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    If you're saying that SC's State government keeps everyone back, welcome to the fold . People have been saying for a long time that government is what holds people back. As for throwing rocks at people who are too smart, ask any "too smart" black student how many rocks their own ethnic group throws at them. And to me, spending more on government schools is nothing to brag about. Just look at the results in the districts that spend the most.

    Oh Frog Dammit, now I gotta Tsst myself.


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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Luv it when that happens!!!!

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post

    Oh Frog Dammit, now I gotta Tsst myself.


    Note to self.. Be less schizophrenic
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    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    I don't mind treating a lady like a lady or whatever she sells herself as, but I will not change with her emotions. She has to pick one role and stick with it. Nobody should be allowed to double dip, men or women. We are supposed to be all equal under the sun regardless of gender. If you want me to open your door always act like a lady. If you want to compete with me at a man's game do not expect any special treatment from me no matter how much cleavage you show.
    Last edited by randude; 11-03-2011 at 01:59 PM. Reason: damn new gadgets learning to use
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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    ==================================================
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    Junkyard Dog randude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post

    LOL By the coloration of the book I was looking for the subtitle (For Dummies)
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    Dog Whisperer cookshow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    QUOTE=MizBrown;121653] But maybe Jinotega is very different from the rest of Nicaragua.[/QUOTE]

    Don't work yourself into a frenzy, Jinotega ain't so special. Here on the Atlantic Coast, more times than not a woman is heading the family.
    ‎"You know what you say when people tell you you can't do something? Fool, shut your mouth up!"
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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by randude View Post
    I don't mind treating a lady like a lady or whatever she sells herself as, but I will not change with her emotions. She has to pick one role and stick with it. Nobody should be allowed to double dip, men or women. We are supposed to be all equal under the sun regardless of gender. If you want me to open your door always act like a lady. If you want to compete with me at a man's game do not expect any special treatment from me no matter how much cleavage you show.
    I'm a dyke and I'm not showing that cleavage to you Everyone should hold the doors for the people behind them and not rush around people to get to the door before they do. Politeness to all there. If I go through the door first, I will hold it open for you whether you like it or not.

    I saw this as good news for Nicaragua -- which isn't how some folks are taking it.

    My impression is that some gringo guys and possibly some of the women they marry exaggerate how awful it is here for women -- they are forced to join the police force; they're dragooned into leading troops into battle; and they are appointed to serve as the head of the National Police, and they're obviously brainwashed into being doctors and dentists at fairly high rates. And they refuse to marry their companeros because of the FSLN. Or something.

    I can't see that Nicaragua being ahead of Austria and France on something is a bad thing.

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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by cookshow View Post
    QUOTE=MizBrown;121653] But maybe Jinotega is very different from the rest of Nicaragua.
    Don't work yourself into a frenzy, Jinotega ain't so special. Here on the Atlantic Coast, more times than not a woman is heading the family.[/QUOTE]

    I used to wonder about the guys not marrying the women, then found out from two sources, one a sociologist who'd lived in a medium poor Managua barrio, that it was the women refusing to marry the men.

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by MizBrown View Post
    I saw this as good news for Nicaragua -- which isn't how some folks are taking it.
    Oh, you knew we'd jump all over your South Carolina comment.

    I don't put much faith in surveys like this. Nicaragua is a matriarchy, the women give their men just enough rope to hang themselves. As for Corn Island women, they are probably smart not to marry most of the men there.

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    Active TRN Member Dolly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Don't know about the south, but I DO know Pennsylvania. I'm a pretty independant, strong willed woman. The men in rural PA will push you around only if you let them. Stand your ground and you actually start to earn their respect. That's probably true almost anywhere.
    It's all part of the adventure!!

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    Para aquí para acá Jonh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolly View Post
    Don't know about the south, but I DO know Pennsylvania. I'm a pretty independant, strong willed woman. The men in rural PA will push you around only if you let them. Stand your ground and you actually start to earn their respect. That's probably true almost anywhere.
    Bingo!!!

    Same goes for men or women, you get pushed around as much as you allow.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    If you're saying that SC's State government keeps everyone back, welcome to the fold . People have been saying for a long time that government is what holds people back. As for throwing rocks at people who are too smart, ask any "too smart" black student how many rocks their own ethnic group throws at them. And to me, spending more on government schools is nothing to brag about. Just look at the results in the districts that spend the most.

    Oh Frog Dammit, now I gotta Tsst myself.

    i think you are realizing that everything involves politics!

    or as elcid would say, "it's all tribal!"

    and his tribe left when his squaw had enough....

    this thread is comedy gold....
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Demento View Post
    i think you are realizing that everything involves politics!

    As a wise man once said... With boundaries

    Re: I have a BIG problem too.....

    i support your position. and you are doing the right things by taking him down to see the results of bad decisions. i like the boarding school idea, as long as the school is lead by people with their heart in the right place. hence, a catholic boarding school wouldn't be bad....

    i preach to parents all the time, love and boundaries. i keep the message simple so that none will miss it. boundaries is another way of saying expectations...
    Author can be known by google monkies...
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by bill_bly_ca View Post
    As a wise man once said... With boundaries


    Dragline: He was smiling... That's right. You know, that, that Luke smile of his. He had it on his face right to the very end. Hell, if they didn't know it 'fore, they could tell right then that they weren't a-gonna beat him. That old Luke smile. Oh, Luke. He was some boy. Cool Hand Luke. Hell, he's a natural-born world-shaker.

    Bill Bly the science guy, you are a natural-born world-shaker! It's probably a plus that you don't have to run a blog..... frees the mind for that deep thinking!

    did i ever tell you the story about the frog and the scorpion?.....
    All this for a flag? Michelle Obama http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/0...our-years-ago/

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    TRN Science officer bill_bly_ca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Demento View Post

    did i ever tell you the story about the frog and the scorpion?.....
    Yes.. Possibly twice...

    Ka sara sara...
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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonh View Post
    Oh, you knew we'd jump all over your South Carolina comment.

    I don't put much faith in surveys like this. Nicaragua is a matriarchy, the women give their men just enough rope to hang themselves. As for Corn Island women, they are probably smart not to marry most of the men there.
    I agree with you but that's not the picture painted of the place in the US. Fortunately, one of my Hispanic guy friends (now attacking sexists males on Google+) disproved the stereotype before I got here.

    I always say something bad about South Carolina in any novel I write set in the US; last two short novels weren't.

    Read the survey; certainly, you can disagree with it. I think the maternal death rate is part of over all health issues, not something specifically done to women, by the way.

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    Active TRN Member dixietraveller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Those poor benighted, ignorant South Carolinians! To think that they actually just elected a female governor (and from an ethnic minority)! I believe (if I'm not mistaken) that's one female governor more than those those enlightened, progressive, liberal states of California, Illinois, and New York have ever elected! Oh, but I forgot! Since she's a Republican, she does not count!
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    The Bard of Jinotega MizBrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not as good as Iceland, but doing better on gender issues than Austria and France

    Quote Originally Posted by dixietraveller View Post
    Those poor benighted, ignorant South Carolinians! To think that they actually just elected a female governor (and from an ethnic minority)! I believe (if I'm not mistaken) that's one female governor more than those those enlightened, progressive, liberal states of California, Illinois, and New York have ever elected! Oh, but I forgot! Since she's a Republican, she does not count!
    The South has rarely cared about any ethnic identity other than black and white. She's not black. This is one thing about the South that many people don't get -- except for the whites around Cherokee, there's little sense that Asians, local indigenous, or Eastern Europeans are anything other than white enough. There's a positive stereotype (equally stupid as negative ones, but less immediately toxic) about Asians in the US. She's Indian and Republican; that makes up for her being a woman in SC.

    Let me know when SC elects a black governor as Virginia did.


    Nicaragua seems to be less problematic for women than some of the expats seem to believe. There are still things I don't like about it, but it rocks that Jinotega's representative to the National Assembly is a woman I know here and that Rosario Murillo is the co-president.


    The US is is in the top 20; Nicaragua and Costa Rica are in the top 30 (with Nicaraguan much improved over other years by the standards the survey used).

    I get tired of hearing expats bad-mouth the place when things are changing for the better.

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